General Class Balance

[Bozzax]

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com/
Simple as that and yes it is a typical monthly and weekly. You can ignore entries for sub rank 40 players.

Inside the game pop ranked leaderboard and check how classes fare in closed settings

[Zxul]

Shamans have been and always will be drastically overtuned... I actually feel this is the same for AM as well, but the shaman specific abilities tweak Shamans over AMs.

I mean, Gork Sez Stop is a ridiculous M1 and should at the very minimum be easily cleansible. But also a speed boost whenever you get hit along with an auto-detaunt....

Yeaaah... nah... hard for anyone to look at shaman (especially with how densely played they are) and not see them as being significantly overtuned.

Gork Sez Stop does a very little (600) dmg if you just stop for 3 sec. As for using it for catching targets, rp/zeal have 100 ft stagger which doesn't gives you a choice about stopping, and which lasts for 6 sec.

The run speed boost, on top of being a proc with only 20% of going off on being hit, and lasting 5 sec, also can only go off once every 10 sec. Tanks for example can get similar boost by just equipping 2h weapon like subj, and it doesn't has a 10 sec cd, and doesn't costs a tactic.

As for autodetaunt, ams have a similar setup (Walk Between Worlds + Run Between Worlds tactic).

Definetly I've got Order bias, but by and large, I do feel the Destro classes just play better, for a number of reasons specific to the career/class themselves.

A few stand-out differences.
DOK's Covenant of Celerity Snare whereas Warrior Priest has none, along with DOK dual wielding giving them a static +10% parry.
Chosen's spiritual damage over physical
Literally anything to do with the disgustingly overtuned Shaman.

Anyways... mandatory moaning completed, game is good fun.

Doks don't have Prayer of Devotion- a guaranteed heal on hit, unlike Covenant of Vitality which does no heal if absorbed etc. Wp also gets 10% parry/ block striketrough from 2h, which dok doesn't gets.

Chosen spirit dmg is mirrored on sm on order side- bo which is direct mirror class of sm does physical dmg.

Shaman is nice, pet them and feed them.

One thing where destro is definitely > order is looks though, whatever its classes which look like npc guards (kotb), or the entire midget race.

And then there are the high elf classes :


Click here to watch on YouTube

[storm]

Tbh there was a dev who mained a WL and he and some others made sure gobbos were never over tuned. They have seen pleanty of nerfs while WL still remains one of the strongest classes in the game. Facts

[SJHarrison4115]

I can respect all of your viewpoints and opinions so please do not take this as an argument.

To further reinforce my not wanting an argument I'm not gonna touch base on other points, however, I do feel like reinforcing this statement.

Gork Sez Stop does "little damage" is a false statement, Gork Sez Stop has potential to do unlimited damage and as best as I can tell, cannot be cleansed (could be wrong, research required.)

The game is a PVP game, we all know (or at least I hope) that PVP boils down in it's most simple iteration as "move or die."

Gork Sez Stop is literally "Move and die or die."

I don't think I'd have an issue with it if it could be reasonably cleansed, however, I believe it falls into it's own category of debuff under "morale" that to my limited knowledge, cannot be cleansed.

Obviously I have my bias, I'm not going to pretend I don't, but my experience has been that regardless of class I play, or how I play, I will lose to a lone shaman 9/10 times.

Could that be a skill issue on my part? Yeah, very probably, however, when they can detaunt constantly, consistently make distance with their proc run speed bonus and even fully healed spec can deliver 1,200 damage a second via dot ticks and heal through all incoming damage with HOTs, it's pretty disheartening.

I think AM's are also quite overtuned, as I mentioned earlier- you can also view that in how many there are running around on Order.

I think Careers should have certain tools in their kit to deal with situations, but having a tool for every situation, alongside significant healing and damage throughput and superior mobility... yeah... I can't see that as being good design.

[storm]

Just try one. Honestly is the best way to gauge for yourself how good they actually are. Remember some of these gobbos have been their main character for 10 years (example Relife or on order Rios) If you run into them alone.. your gonna die. I remember Rios from live.. so he has been playing that archetype for 13+ years or so. Most do not fall into this category.

[Zxul]

Gork Sez Stop does "little damage" is a false statement, Gork Sez Stop has potential to do unlimited damage and as best as I can tell, cannot be cleansed (could be wrong, research required.)

The game is a PVP game, we all know (or at least I hope) that PVP boils down in it's most simple iteration as "move or die."

Gork Sez Stop is literally "Move and die or die."

Thing is, there are plenty of other abilities which don't give you choice of moving or not, don't require building moral, and don't have a 60 sec cd- rp/ zealot 6 sec stagger, or bw/ sw ranged kd for example. And then there are all the ranged snares which practically do the same.

Could that be a skill issue on my part? Yeah, very probably, however, when they can detaunt constantly, consistently make distance with their proc run speed bonus and even fully healed spec can deliver 1,200 damage a second via dot ticks and heal through all incoming damage with HOTs, it's pretty disheartening.

Sham single target detaunt has a 15 sec cd. The detaunt proc requires tactic slot, meaning sham needs to sacrifice something else.

Run speed proc requires yet another tactic slot, and has a 10 sec cd. Also, you can get a similar proc (Quick Escape) with renown. Also, you can get pistol from epic quests/ city dungeons which has a 10% chance to snare opponent on being hit. Also, there is the old Flee + ap pot tactic. Also, you can use Sanctified Oil to gain run speed. Or, say, combinations like Flee + ap pot (can use 2 ap pots actually, pve one and pvp one)- Shroud of Magnus and silence, to gain 11 sec of total time during which shaman can't do anything to you.

There is no way for a full heal or hybrid shaman to deal 1200 dps. A full glass cannon bis dps shaman might be able to do it on low toughness target with debuffed resists, but even then he won't be able to do it while using defensive tactics, like run speed or detaunt. He will have healing from lifetaps, but he will have no mitigation. Now shaman with hybrid build can probably do 1200 damage on a specific soft target after he spend time building things up, but it will be during a short window, while doing much less dmg while building things up.

Remember also that as a wh you have advantage of opening, meaning you can switch tactics and morals to best ones to fight the specific target. For example, Confusing Movements m1 is useless vs shaman, so you can switch it to Exoneration to be able to instantly cleanse all his dots and heal yourself, or to Sever Nerve to assist with burst.

Sham however is without a doubt a hard opponent to fight as a melee class. Especially that currently wh's (and we's) dmg is nerfed pretty heavily, compared to before abilities patch.

I think Careers should have certain tools in their kit to deal with situations, but having a tool for every situation, alongside significant healing and damage throughput and superior mobility... yeah... I can't see that as being good design.

There are plenty of situations shamans/ ams can't deal with all that well- their kiting doesn't works vs ranged dmg, and there is lot of ranged played order side, they especially if going glass cannon are killable just fine by wls, and their kit works much less if there 2 attackers involved. Specifically as a wh vs shaman however, it is indeed a hard fight.

[SJHarrison4115]

Well, your responses have certainly given me some things to think about and some information that perhaps I had been missing in my admittedly very ancedotally evidenced argument.

I'll take that information in stride and see if it has an affect on my gameplay and mindset. In order to prevent this thread from deviating too far off topic, I won't continue to harp on with my "All Shamans must Die" mantra.

Cheers

[billyk]

Hey y'all!

Sorry, I tried googling this and did not find any up to date info...

Could anyone tell me how the overall class balance at the moment for all classes is at the moment? What is OP, what is too weak, what is balanced?

Thanks a lot if anyone can find the time to answer this

Note the people who say everything is fine are all destro players. This should tell you everything you need to know.

[jafh123]

Everything is fine.

[Sinisterror]

I think It would probably work/be better if there was something like this. 50% Cast time Increase should affect melee's being 05s increase. 25% Would be 025s and if you have 05s cast time increase proc + 25%-50% cast time increase it would stack to 0,6-075s. So percent ones stack with 05s increases.

This is Ekaslime's Idea but would be amazing if implemented!

Light Robes will have soft caps of: 25% Physical Mitigation and 75% Magical Mitigation
Light Armor will have soft caps of: 30% Physical Mitigatin and 50% Magical Mitigation
Medium Robes will have soft caps of: 40% Physical Mitigation and 40% Magical Mitigation
Medium Armor will have soft caps of: 50% Physical Mitigation and 30% Magical Mitigation
Heavy Armor will have soft caps of: 75%Physical Mitigation and 25% Magical Mitigation