A Detailed Game Management Methodology - "Saving" the game

[Maltar]

Looking at what feels the best in the game, there is one aspect of playing that is too often forgotten in the way the game has been shaped over time.

Overpowered builds, overpowered abilities, iconic specs, the more things have been nerfed across the board, the more the distinctions between the classes have been wiped out.
It is not the feeling of running into an overpowered enemy that is the issue, it is the lack of counters.

The only thing that should go through a players head when being blown up, having his group blown up, or WB blown up, should not be: My class is too weak, or their class is too strong, it should be: I used my abilities wrong, I misclicked my defensive tools, I could have done that engagement better.

The best version of the game is the one where each class has plenty of counters to what they face, but picking the right one for the right situation gets you killed if you get it wrong.

I/we could have done that fight better is the state of mind you want to foster in your players, if they want to play solo, 3 man, 6 man, 12 man or WB, that part really does not matter, but that each class has plenty of tools and counter-tools does.

Might even be time to look at the CC immunity timers.
Skill based play is the golden standard for where diving deeper into your class makes you better, the skill floor of various builds should have stayed strong, iconic builds being strong straight away, but the skill ceiling should be lifted sky high across the board.

A lot of the fast paced counterplay went out the window with the GCD changes, that was by itself a skill ceiling nerf of the ages, time your attacks/abilities perfectly, get 1.1second gcd, time it badly get 1.5.

There should be more such mechanics, not less, morales, especially defensive ones should be more often available, but of shorter duration. Make the game much more snappy in behavior, the glacial pace the game currently moves at makes for a stale environment to play in.

In small scale TTK should be snappy, and the tools and build for such easily available, and the larger the groups fighting, the more tools should shift to strategic play, careful overlay of defensive/cc abilities to control incoming damage, where slight gap in your defenses will absolutely melt your frontline.

So yes, damage should be high, builds should be buffed across the board, and the only counter should be stronger defensive abilities that must be timed correctly. (The dream of cooldowns being reduced according to how much damage you mitigated)

You and your group died because you got your defenses and positioning wrong, not because the enemy outnumbered you two to one. Slip up for a second and your group goes pop.
And then you can have fights even against overwhelming numbers where you feel the adrenaline pumping as you fight to get each part right, rather than looking at the enemy and going well we have lost, time to afk and wait for surrender/respawn.

[Fakkel]

Ctrl+f 'money' has empty result on the post above.

So, the core of all the problems is a monetisation lack of this game. It must be monetized in some way. Team's work must me compensated in a fair way by money payments.
Money will give resources: time, specialists to solve any of the problems. Ad too.

I guess its forbidden in some way for now by the bl copyright holders. But its not impossible to overcome it.

Plenty of people would want to help this game for free. I'm pretty sure in 10 years we could get an entire new faction just by crowdsourcing 3d models, art and code. If such was the goal. Though weird gameplay decisions, like scenario barriers, have nothing to do with money or resources.

You are so order biaz that i hope you never get on the dev team.

[nocturnalguest]

Lads who work on this project are pretty much professional irl on their main jobs. I strongly believe they do know all this project management tricks etc but obviously cba to follow them on their hobby which they do for fun and out of passion. Money are irrelevant as there are no legal monetisation schemes.

I believe your idea is truly dead born and wont see a light of day.

Main issues as i see them are:
1) very closed nonetransparent team and very little options to get into team as they are mostly value their own vision of loaylity and "rightness" of their members. do know many cases when folks who had time&passion&skills (including coding ones) to help out have been either ghosted or ignored via PMs or any other panhuman (=/= no official application) ways to communication with their suggestions or proposals which they would develop and do on their own. i suspect it was done due to those players obviously having "bad" history of interactions with team. imo thats pretty childish, but it is what it is.
team common explanation for such behaviour is old code leaks for apoc. especially considering the other 2 servers of which one was at first fully based on ror code while the other definitely also had very old versions of ror code.
imo those times are long gone and sad forgotten and they should heavily expand team to increase manpower cause ror team will surely win a competition for pop.
2) players retinations has to consider all current MMO trends. easy start easy go, very low time investments to get into end game, everything easy, everything for free, you log you are rewarded - the only hard stuff starts at absolute toptier. obvious denial of those trends will make ror always lose new blood. they have to obey the trends and adapt.
current game model resembles korean grind. grind will not keep people playing. it has to go asap. no big streamers stars will save a day here.
3) any orvr rework and speeding up match maker development alone will be a huge pop raise. replayability is stale for more then 6 years already. alot just simply got way too bored.

[Voldt]

As someone who has and does run private Ultima Online servers, I am 100% on the developer's side here. You guys expect too much indeed. Why? Because unless you have had the experience to run your own server, let alone a whole community, you won't understand what a mammoth of a challenge it is. We are all passionate about RoR and want to see the game flourish, but that doesn't mean we can't take a step back sometimes and have some empathy.

Balancing especially is a task that leads into two possible directions (from a "2 factions battling"-point of view):

1) You try to make classes feel unique, giving each side some tools the other side doesn't have, or at least not in the mirrored classes. This will lead to envy in the community: "But, but, but... I DEMAND what that guy has too! Not fair!" Then you will be bombarded with Excel charts from a ton of different kind of players (Solo, Group play etc.), each claiming they found the magical philosopher's stone formula to balance. And let me tell you: The math is ALWAYS vastly different in each of these proposals.

2) The second option is to mirror all the classes on each side and have them just use different "skins" for ability effects. Speaking from experience, this leads to players being bored and not feeling unique.

Either way, as a developer it's a daunting task and the battle for balance hasn't only been raging on these forums for 10 years. Just look at DAoC. 20 years later, people still bash their heads in over certain skills and classes. To this day, people claim to know "the perfect road to balance", each in their own little bubble.

If the devs were paid one could argue they are obliged to fulfill your demands. But since you can play this game for absolutely free, they are not.

On top of that: There is a road map that was made public. Once these steps have been taken, it's time to re-evaluate. Not now, in the middle of the whole process.

[georgehabadasher]

Before a change is proposed can a simple ‘would this be fun for all types of players’ be asked. If the answer is it just favours organised groups then can the change not be introduced. The game needs all types of players from people who spend 12hrs per day in game to those who log in play a few scens and log off. The recent changes heavily favour org groups and limit many play styles.

IMO, this is the most important thing to focus on. Groups already have advantages by being on average better geared, more experienced and more coordinated. They don't need help from the devs. And we've seen that making it harder on pugs doesn't 'force' people to group up, they just quit.

From speaking to people, it also seems like a lot of players have lost some faith in the project since Hazmy left. They feel like the project had taken really positive steps towards focusing on important issues, and enormous strides in communication while he was on the team.

[Garamore]

As someone who has and does run private Ultima Online servers, I am 100% on the developer's side here. You guys expect too much indeed. Why? Because unless you have had the experience to run your own server, let alone a whole community, you won't understand what a mammoth of a challenge it is. We are all passionate about RoR and want to see the game flourish, but that doesn't mean we can't take a step back sometimes and have some empathy.

Balancing especially is a task that leads into two possible directions (from a "2 factions battling"-point of view):

1) You try to make classes feel unique, giving each side some tools the other side doesn't have, or at least not in the mirrored classes. This will lead to envy in the community: "But, but, but... I DEMAND what that guy has too! Not fair!" Then you will be bombarded with Excel charts from a ton of different kind of players (Solo, Group play etc.), each claiming they found the magical philosopher's stone formula to balance. And let me tell you: The math is ALWAYS vastly different in each of these proposals.

2) The second option is to mirror all the classes on each side and have them just use different "skins" for ability effects. Speaking from experience, this leads to players being bored and not feeling unique.

Either way, as a developer it's a daunting task and the battle for balance hasn't only been raging on these forums for 10 years. Just look at DAoC. 20 years later, people still bash their heads in over certain skills and classes. To this day, people claim to know "the perfect road to balance", each in their own little bubble.

If the devs were paid one could argue they are obliged to fulfill your demands. But since you can play this game for absolutely free, they are not.

On top of that: There is a road map that was made public. Once these steps have been taken, it's time to re-evaluate. Not now, in the middle of the whole process.

Its all the bad changes that didnt need to be made that are putting people off. The game was better 2 years ago than now. Yes people raged about balance but we will always find the most broken builds and play those so why make that the focus. There is no balancing this game so you make everyone happy.

Org city killed RvR campaign
Barriers in scens drive away pugs
No Guards in scens drive away pugs
No RR gain for guard kills drive way pugs
Rewarding kills over all else drive away pugs
No chap 22
1/2 city dungeons
Random rvr changes with no real reasoning (9 cap, proposed ini change, GCD timer)

I could keep going but the main point is if you focus on just making this game for the top 10% and ignore the rest the rest stop playing and this game needs around 1000 players to feel like its populated and you arent just killing the same people all the time.

[Dackjanielz]

As someone who has and does run private Ultima Online servers, I am 100% on the developer's side here. You guys expect too much indeed. Why? Because unless you have had the experience to run your own server, let alone a whole community, you won't understand what a mammoth of a challenge it is. We are all passionate about RoR and want to see the game flourish, but that doesn't mean we can't take a step back sometimes and have some empathy.

Balancing especially is a task that leads into two possible directions (from a "2 factions battling"-point of view):

1) You try to make classes feel unique, giving each side some tools the other side doesn't have, or at least not in the mirrored classes. This will lead to envy in the community: "But, but, but... I DEMAND what that guy has too! Not fair!" Then you will be bombarded with Excel charts from a ton of different kind of players (Solo, Group play etc.), each claiming they found the magical philosopher's stone formula to balance. And let me tell you: The math is ALWAYS vastly different in each of these proposals.

2) The second option is to mirror all the classes on each side and have them just use different "skins" for ability effects. Speaking from experience, this leads to players being bored and not feeling unique.

Either way, as a developer it's a daunting task and the battle for balance hasn't only been raging on these forums for 10 years. Just look at DAoC. 20 years later, people still bash their heads in over certain skills and classes. To this day, people claim to know "the perfect road to balance", each in their own little bubble.

If the devs were paid one could argue they are obliged to fulfill your demands. But since you can play this game for absolutely free, they are not.

On top of that: There is a road map that was made public. Once these steps have been taken, it's time to re-evaluate. Not now, in the middle of the whole process.

Its all the bad changes that didnt need to be made that are putting people off. The game was better 2 years ago than now. Yes people raged about balance but we will always find the most broken builds and play those so why make that the focus. There is no balancing this game so you make everyone happy.

Org city killed RvR campaign
Barriers in scens drive away pugs
No Guards in scens drive away pugs
No RR gain for guard kills drive way pugs
Rewarding kills over all else drive away pugs
No chap 22
1/2 city dungeons
Random rvr changes with no real reasoning (9 cap, proposed ini change, GCD timer)

I could keep going but the main point is if you focus on just making this game for the top 10% and ignore the rest the rest stop playing and this game needs around 1000 players to feel like its populated and you arent just killing the same people all the time.

This man is speaking facts.

[Morradin]

Excellent outline on project management and production method. No sarcasm. Not joking, well done.
Sadly what the project needs is soldiers in the trenches, not another general. Even someone with your (again, not joking at all here) amazing communication skills can be more help. Twice a year or so, we get dev notes telling us what is planned, what the devs are doing, etc. Write a dev, see if you can help organize that more and releasing notes say four times a year, or six, or more. Let the dev work on coding and developing. Unless you too know how to code (or whatever dark magic* it is they do), then volunteer to do that (too).

* I worked in the arts, to me creating code to make a game work is a Lovecraftian horror magical incantation.

This game base (I mean the original WAR) has been designed that way, it's in the DNA of old school MMORPGs to favour organisation and communication. Casual players will lose, unbalanced pugs will lose, solo players will lose even more and all of this is normal. It's a tank-dd-healer game, if you don't play in a 2-2-2 it's perfectly normal to fail but people don't want to learn and commit. I say it's not a balance or code problem but a playerbase issue.

You want to save this project? Find people who really love this game and want to play it as it deserves and not as a random Fortnite or other LOL. But, this is an impossible task, game industry changed too heavily and players aren't used to difficulty anymore.

Difficulty is not the problem. The game is easy. People like you are the problem. The so called, "Die Hard", play 6 to 12 hrs daily, always must be in a 2-2-2, super committed group where everyone's abilities complement everyone else, and voice com reaction time is down to 1 second or less. YOU are the problem. Catering to YOUR playstyle, is killing the game. (See current problems with lack of guards in scenarios.)

I do not say this to call you, or anyone else out. It is just fact. Even though the design of the game is in group play, Mythic realized that not everyone can commit to that. A random casual player could play solo in WAR and have success. Not anymore.

What you, people like you, and the current design of this game do not seem to understand is that the majority of people do not have the time to commit to this play style. There are people in the 40's, 50's, and even (like me and my partner) in their 60's playing this game. There are parents of children who must be able to get up and AFK at a moments notice. Commiting to an organized guild or group, takes devoted time. You can not get up in the middle of a scenario (for example), and run to the kitchen because the pot of food on the stove is starting to burn. There are people playing this game, while they also work from home (and even some at work office ).
ROR is not designed for these people. And as more and more of young players get older, more and more drop out because as you so eloquently said, "They will lose, and this is normal." (paraphrased)

Mythic realized this. Maybe you should too?

[Voldt]

Excellent outline on project management and production method. No sarcasm. Not joking, well done.
Sadly what the project needs is soldiers in the trenches, not another general. Even someone with your (again, not joking at all here) amazing communication skills can be more help. Twice a year or so, we get dev notes telling us what is planned, what the devs are doing, etc. Write a dev, see if you can help organize that more and releasing notes say four times a year, or six, or more. Let the dev work on coding and developing. Unless you too know how to code (or whatever dark magic* it is they do), then volunteer to do that (too).

* I worked in the arts, to me creating code to make a game work is a Lovecraftian horror magical incantation.

This game base (I mean the original WAR) has been designed that way, it's in the DNA of old school MMORPGs to favour organisation and communication. Casual players will lose, unbalanced pugs will lose, solo players will lose even more and all of this is normal. It's a tank-dd-healer game, if you don't play in a 2-2-2 it's perfectly normal to fail but people don't want to learn and commit. I say it's not a balance or code problem but a playerbase issue.

You want to save this project? Find people who really love this game and want to play it as it deserves and not as a random Fortnite or other LOL. But, this is an impossible task, game industry changed too heavily and players aren't used to difficulty anymore.

Difficulty is not the problem. The game is easy. People like you are the problem. The so called, "Die Hard", play 6 to 12 hrs daily, always must be in a 2-2-2, super committed group where everyone's abilities complement everyone else, and voice com reaction time is down to 1 second or less. YOU are the problem. Catering to YOUR playstyle, is killing the game. (See current problems with lack of guards in scenarios.)

I do not say this to call you, or anyone else out. It is just fact. Even though the design of the game is in group play, Mythic realized that not everyone can commit to that. A random casual player could play solo in WAR and have success. Not anymore.

What you, people like you, and the current design of this game do not seem to understand is that the majority of people do not have the time to commit to this play style. There are people in the 40's, 50's, and even (like me and my partner) in their 60's playing this game. There are parents of children who must be able to get up and AFK at a moments notice. Commiting to an organized guild or group, takes devoted time. You can not get up in the middle of a scenario (for example), and run to the kitchen because the pot of food on the stove is starting to burn. There are people playing this game, while they also work from home (and even some at work office ).
ROR is not designed for these people. And as more and more of young players get older, more and more drop out because as you so eloquently said, "They will lose, and this is normal." (paraphrased)

Mythic realized this. Maybe you should too?

I can get behind your trail of thoughts there, but you seem to miss a point: I assume we all play this game in order to get that "Old School MMORPG"-feeling (Having to socialize to form groups etc. etc.). Otherwise, we'd all play WoW or the likes, not this. It's part of its magic and why there is no other MMO like RoR at the moment.
Speaking of WoW, this "make it casual-friendly"-approach is what ultimately turned a group experience into a single player game you silently play alongside others. And that is the exact opposite of an "Old School MMORPG". That's the reason people cried out for classic servers. They realized the soul of the game was lost on the way to appeal to a broader audience.

On top of that: If you don't have time for that (group play etc.), maybe this style of gameplay just isn't for you. It's like saying "Ah I really want to play Monopoly but I can't invest several hours so everyone has to play the sped up light version now". People that invest more time and more energy harvest more and better rewards, as it should be. Otherwise, we are turning towards another meaningless single player RPG disguised as a MMORPG.

You can always jump into scenarios if you just have some minutes in between. It's just not the game's obligation to cater to people with less time and will to commit when it comes to organized warbands and the likes.

[Garamore]

Correct but AoR struck a better balance than current RoR where its basically get gud or get gone