Why punish PvP-players and reward winning-team-joiners?

[Caduceus]

One of the core design principles of RoR has always been "no rewards for losing", and the fact of the matter is that when outnumbered in RvR, it very quickly becomes impossible to win.

20% AAO is an uphill battle, 40% starts becoming oppressive to an extent where only the most organized warbands can still find play, and anything beyond that is basically unwinnable. (Maybe some scraps here and there) Not to mention, when fighting Against All Odds, sieging (and thus 'winning' RvR) is entirely off the table.

If anything, the reward for going AAO should be steeply increased to reflect how difficult it actually is to win. For example, 40% AAO easily deserves a 100% RR/XP increase, in my opinion.

[Vibax]

AAO does not function and is actually counter productiv the higher the numbers get.
When you have wb's fights, 20% AAO is ok 40 become hard anything above is just absurd. The problem with AAO is because of it and the way it works (gotta kill something) people stop joining WB's and play small grps gankers making even more impossible to fight.
I've lead afternoon WB's with 18+ facing 3 wb's, having no other wb by my side yet only 20 or 40% AAO.
When on the loosing side if you wanna make use of the AAO you simply don't play WB cause if you grow big you become a target you get called out in zone and then hunt hard. If you win a fair fight then its just over cause the opponent will just grp up and you will never find a single fair fight. Cherry on top that 9AOE cap ...
About the numbers shifting especially during the afternoon it's not a Xrealm prob tbh. When side start to loose people log off or do something else, SC's PvE, alts etc. On top of it because this is an international server you have some guild from all around the world with different timezone having Guild event / Alliance during "Eu afternoon". So all the sudden you get +20ish players logging on 1 side.
Many have tryed (myself inculded) to make EU afternoon playable but having for a carrot just conditional extra RR vs getting hit by the stick for hours cause the other faction is stacking up numbers and you dont get anytools to fight back is just pointless.
At this point you just gotta believe that the devs are happy with the state of the game.
I mean it's a war campaign numbers and only numbers matter that's the reality for now. Better stop asking you'll just get no answers from the devs, so many posts have been made and yet year after year they make some small change that don't tackle the problem, they even said that reducing the AOE cap was to help under numbered side ...

[Aethilmar]

One of the core design principles of RoR has always been "no rewards for losing", and the fact of the matter is that when outnumbered in RvR, it very quickly becomes impossible to win.

20% AAO is an uphill battle, 40% starts becoming oppressive to an extent where only the most organized warbands can still find play, and anything beyond that is basically unwinnable. (Maybe some scraps here and there) Not to mention, when fighting Against All Odds, sieging (and thus 'winning' RvR) is entirely off the table.

If anything, the reward for going AAO should be steeply increased to reflect how difficult it actually is to win. For example, 40% AAO easily deserves a 100% RR/XP increase, in my opinion.

This. It is (for most players) a question of rewards and the most rewards are tied to 1) kills and 2) flips. And those are easier to do on the side with more population i.e. no matter your skill level or group composition you will get more of each if you are on the side with more population.

The devs only reluctantly seem to want to acknowledge that in a PvP game you need two teams for anyone to have fun. They ran into this problem a few years ago when they were more "hard core" and reluctantly started adding more rewards for losers to maintain some motivation for the underdog side. But, make no mistake, if they could they would have a winner-take-all-loser-gets-nothing version of the game.

[Uchoo]

It's been discussed heavily but an RvR rework is the most definitive solution.

[Tisaya]

AAO does not function and is actually counter productiv the higher the numbers get.
When you have wb's fights, 20% AAO is ok 40 become hard anything above is just absurd. The problem with AAO is because of it and the way it works (gotta kill something) people stop joining WB's and play small grps gankers making even more impossible to fight.

Have to blame the game mechanics that enables blobbing and makes fighting outnumbered extremely unproductive and unfun. I would specifically blame OP healer class and guard mechanics for being force multipliers that make blobbing so effective. It's well known that healer is the strongest and most influential archetype in the game. Naturally, the side with the bigger blob will have more healers in it. Wall of heal + guard mitigation make fighting while outnumbered not only unfun, but also a waste of time. Even 1000% AAO renown buff won't do much when **** just doesn't die.


Joining a WB while being under 20+ AAO is just asking to be repeatedly shitstomped without a chance to fight back. By gathering in a single place you just make it easier for the enemy blob to farm you.

[Topdude]

It's been discussed heavily but an RvR rework is the most definitive solution.

Agreed! Change the focus to flipping zones and locking BOs. Change it so that if I log on and a keep is under attack I'll get a meaningful reward for venturing out and defending or helping to take it.
Right now I get more RP for kills and assists than for a healthy zone lock with contribution. I've logged on and ran out to a keep so many times only to beat the lord, take a BO and get NOTHING! These days, if I don't have contribution I'll sit in WC until the next zone opens.

[Lion1986]

this issue happens due to :
allowing xrealming
lockout still short. should be daily
give bonus marks in junction with AAO and not only exp and renown

[Morradin]

What exactly convinced you that the absolute majority of the server has characters on both sides? No order toons here for example, on live or in ror.

The OP did say "majority". That means "most". You, who do not, are in the minority. OP was right

And you base it- on what exactly? Since I don't remember any kind of survey asking players if they play one side, or both.

Because people like to play the "Entire" game. All of the content. Not just 50% of it. Seriously, how many gamers do you know that play only HALF of a game's content? I do not know any.

[DirkDaring]

I`m in the minority in ROR , I always enjoy playing the side that is outnumbered, I did the same on live as well, when they were finally down to only one server. I play NA time zone, but rarely play anymore my BW hit 82 in 2019 and is still 82, my WP has been 79 since 2021, for the last 2 years whenever I would log on during my primetime during the week, I`d see Order pve taking keeps forts, 127 order vs 20 dest in a fort as an example, so I would just log off, rather than pve.

The last 4 years I have taken a lot of breaks from the game each time anywhere from 4 to 8 months each time, then I would come back play for 2 or 3 months to see the state of the game, and take a break again, I don`t even bother playing during the week anymore, the only time it`s worth playing is on the weekend, as during the week, it`s order taking pve forts to push IC every 3 days, at least that`s what I`ve seen the last 2 or 3 years in NA primetime late night time zones.

I still really only play order toons when order is outnumbered, yesterday I logged on, to see us in Caeldor around 200pm EU time, dest had 140% AAO, I ran around in the lake, and only saw the same 4 dest to fight for an hour, and order was all excited about pushing fort while no one was on to fight, so I logged off, and came back to check 2 hours later. Order locked Cale, and took the fort, while I was off,

Years ago before the fort lockouts you would see, people log on one faction, to push fort, or city, then all swap to other side to farm, and gear up other toons on opposite faction.

The game overall was much more fun years ago, when taking, holding bos, actually mattered, and was important for progressing the campaign, now with scheduled cities, and pve forts, the campaign doesn't even matter. also killboard while may be fun , actually hurts the game, you see people avoid fights, as they may die, and hurt their weekly/monthly stats, all the while 1 wb chasing down 1 or 2 low lvl players to pad their kill stats.

[Zxul]

The OP did say "majority". That means "most". You, who do not, are in the minority. OP was right

And you base it- on what exactly? Since I don't remember any kind of survey asking players if they play one side, or both.

Because people like to play the "Entire" game. All of the content. Not just 50% of it. Seriously, how many gamers do you know that play only HALF of a game's content? I do not know any.

I know a lot. Guess its different if you are not a member of a xrealming guild