[PTS] Patch Notes 16/08/2024

[bastre]

These are changes in the wrong direction for Squig Herder. This class is too universal and I don't mean the damage it deals but the ability to play both melee and ranged at the same time. The same goes for Shadow Warrior. Either make melee specs a meme in RVR like it was on ''live'' because it's a ranged class or limit melee capabilities when someone has ranged skills and vice versa. If someone has melee specs, they should only have plink from ranged (maybe something else or something additional) and ranged only ard noggin from melee and nothing more (similar here). Armor can stay, smooth transition as well, kaboom also without cd because since it's in the melee tree, the ranged spec won't have it.
Restrictions can be lifted outside of RVR. Maybe move some skills to another tree or change their operation. In any case, this should be a basic change to the balance of these classes.

[Zxul]

To bypass armor you'll need WEAPOIN SKILL investment ( 700 to reach 50% penetration), armor debuffs, the game even has armor % penetration reduction items( fleshrenders, gear, weapons, liniment etc) which there is no Magical penetration % equivalent to.

To bypass resistance you don't need anything since it is practically softcapped at 40% , which means that even if someone went through all the efforts to have a resistance aura bot /liniment with them, gimped their character stats with low tier jewelry etc the Magic damage user will enjoy 60% penetration with as simple resistance debuff , which is equivalent of having to invest more than 800 Weapon skill. Let that sink in again, 800 Stat investment!

Against targets without an aura bot with them, or heavy investements into resistances( bis toons 480-500 resistances) a resistance debuff of 370 will bring them down to less than 10% mitigation vs magic, that means 90+ penetration for the magic user, ever wondered why you get killd so fast by a sorc or magus? There is why. Most of their ranged dps is basically not being mitigated.

Let me introduce you to a line of abilities called "armor debuff". Now the wonderful thing about them, is that they stack with armor penetration from ws, and can even stack with each other (ability debuff + tank m1). Now make a calculation how much armor caster in full sov + armor pot= 2 k armor has vs just 1 k armor debuff + say 400 ws, not to mention actual full 1.4 k or so was it wl/mara armor debuff + 1056 tank m1 debuff.

Interesting, for some reason 0% REMAINING PHYSICAL MITIGATION seems to be a bit less than that 10% mitigation which you mention on toon which made sure to put 0 effect into anti magic mitigation, and to not team with any class which could buff his resistances.

So let's go back to this very true statement:

'' Physical damage classes in ror need weaponskill to be effective. I don't see why because physical affords no real advantages but that's the way it is
''

You making sure to stand in corner and to keep your eyes shut just so you won't see it, doesn't provides any actual data value.

Yes indeed, physical damage in RoR is gimped per default compared to Magic damage, hence why carrers with Magic scource has been dominating in roaming scene forever, Shaman, Arch Mage, Magus, Chosen etc. Those classes that get strong armor debuffs( white lion) do not build weapon skill easily, since they lack tactics and abilities for it. With the exception of Marauder that do get 25% pen tactic on all mutations and has + weapon skill tactics + strong debuff.

The only thing on par with the OP Magic users and their OP magic debuffs , used to be WH blessed blade set at 50% pen.

Tl:Dr The imbalance between Magic vs physical in this game is a fact, resistance as a stat is underpowered compared to armor. And Disrupt might as well not exist unless someone is holding the line with a shield and people standing behind it.

Great, finally someone order side states that sh- purely physical dmg- is underpowered and needs buffs. I will make sure to bring your statement on this in every "sh op nerf" thread.

Also, I guess I been hallucinating all those years, seeing all those wls/ shs/ sws/ whs/ WEs / ibs roaming. Not sure where did it came from, guess it is something in the local water, will have to check it.

Also, I'm still trying to figure out how your special kind of math works, where every healer (700 will = 21% disr + 18% renown) or tank (20% tactic + 18% renown) means "Disrupt might as well not exist". For some reason, 38-39% - before htl- just seems to be more than 0%, still hadn't managed to find the error in the calculation.

[siglade]

Target cap test
The test of the target cap at 9 is concluded and it is reverted back to 24.

That a shame, overall the cap9 was better with the higher TTK it provided and increase the importance of a group effort, less aoe on me and more move, burn st target, cc, aim for a specific spot..

Initiative & Weapon Skill rebalancing
It will make init debuff worth it (almost double value, maxed init debuff is +6% crit). For most the ws not increasing parry won't be noticed and for the one that stacked ws it will end with ~10/15% less parry.

Unsure about stacking init regardless of the class, overall it's a interesting approach.

Balance Change
RP
More damage overall, a better aoe hd, improved rune and more importantly the most desired debuff, aoe debuff elemental.

One thing that bother me, lifetap is one of the strongest mechanic on ror (no los required, range max is only limited to you able to target the ally and ignore hd), rvr have already a fair number of am/sham because of that and i guess we will see more of rp/zeal able to deal damage and heal for absurd number.

AoE wise will see, the improved aoe hd is very nice and overall all aoe abilities get buff (lower cd)+new ability 13pt which can deal some serious damage maybe. The aoe debuff elemental added is the boost to any wb that run 3-4 fireclown(almost all do) which can't be ignored.

Improved rune with new effect. Overall the effect look cool, need to test on live to get a better idea i guess.

Rsh,
I can't see what is the goal the balance team want to achieve with the change. Seems like unfair change overall.

Zealot.
Same as rp for most thing (damage st/aoe)

Improved mark, one is mirrored (nice cool, the effect is decent for a 1min use) but the other two feel just off chart.

Mark of Daemonic Fury active effect reworked into - No cost. 60s cd. Instant cast. Deal an additional x damage on your 5 next attacks within 10 seconds. This ability cannot proc more than once per second. (Base damage 187, scaling 0). (Damage scales of Path of Witchcraft).

How i can see it is a melee train (can even add snb dok) that will all use it at same time to burst down someone under talon/chch. It's truly something strong for a organized party, sync the use together to increase by a fair margin your next go. I don't think it fit the current game.

Mark of the Vortex active effect reworked into - No cost. 60s cd. Instant cast. Reduce your damage taken by 50% for 3 seconds. This does not stack with Detaunt.

It bugged me a bit first time i saw it, especially the fact that it's not mirrored (order have a absorb), this one is just too strong is so many ways and in all content.

In wb, it will make any punt less deadly as your dps/healer/tank being punt into wb enemy pop it and 3s time is enough for a tank to react and be in guard range. The tank in warband will use it to soak aoe damage on them during a drop, same for healer or unguarded dps. In general aoe fight are all based on the timing of channel, with the right timing you can tank their aoe channel burst with just the 3s -50% damage.

In party, it just a insane tool that negate any range party order. It also help tank when under pressure and finally for the zealot himself that have a aoe detaunt 3min, it will help them a lot when under pressure (wh+wl going on them).

Both Mark above are really strong on their own, Vortex being the most versatile one with multiple use. Then we have the new tactic that reduce the cd by 30s and i guess zealot will find a way to use it especially for small.

Overall i'm curious to see the reason for the mark/rune change for rp/zeal, even too currently they are not really used for the use itself (thought the current use from primary stat buff is one of the best for rvr, 100ft insta dd to dismount people) i'm not sure why such change when to me it's not really a priority and secondly it will make Zeal/RP even more needed in comp.

[salazarn]

To bypass armor you'll need WEAPOIN SKILL investment ( 700 to reach 50% penetration), armor debuffs, the game even has armor % penetration reduction items( fleshrenders, gear, weapons, liniment etc) which there is no Magical penetration % equivalent to.

To bypass resistance you don't need anything since it is practically softcapped at 40% , which means that even if someone went through all the efforts to have a resistance aura bot /liniment with them, gimped their character stats with low tier jewelry etc the Magic damage user will enjoy 60% penetration with as simple resistance debuff , which is equivalent of having to invest more than 800 Weapon skill. Let that sink in again, 800 Stat investment!

Against targets without an aura bot with them, or heavy investements into resistances( bis toons 480-500 resistances) a resistance debuff of 370 will bring them down to less than 10% mitigation vs magic, that means 90+ penetration for the magic user, ever wondered why you get killd so fast by a sorc or magus? There is why. Most of their ranged dps is basically not being mitigated.

Let me introduce you to a line of abilities called "armor debuff". Now the wonderful thing about them, is that they stack with armor penetration from ws, and can even stack with each other (ability debuff + tank m1). Now make a calculation how much armor caster in full sov + armor pot= 2 k armor has vs just 1 k armor debuff + say 400 ws, not to mention actual full 1.4 k or so was it wl/mara armor debuff + 1056 tank m1 debuff.

Interesting, for some reason 0% REMAINING PHYSICAL MITIGATION seems to be a bit less than that 10% mitigation which you mention on toon which made sure to put 0 effect into anti magic mitigation, and to not team with any class which could buff his resistances.

So let's go back to this very true statement:

'' Physical damage classes in ror need weaponskill to be effective. I don't see why because physical affords no real advantages but that's the way it is
''

You making sure to stand in corner and to keep your eyes shut just so you won't see it, doesn't provides any actual data value.

Yes indeed, physical damage in RoR is gimped per default compared to Magic damage, hence why carrers with Magic scource has been dominating in roaming scene forever, Shaman, Arch Mage, Magus, Chosen etc. Those classes that get strong armor debuffs( white lion) do not build weapon skill easily, since they lack tactics and abilities for it. With the exception of Marauder that do get 25% pen tactic on all mutations and has + weapon skill tactics + strong debuff.

The only thing on par with the OP Magic users and their OP magic debuffs , used to be WH blessed blade set at 50% pen.

Tl:Dr The imbalance between Magic vs physical in this game is a fact, resistance as a stat is underpowered compared to armor. And Disrupt might as well not exist unless someone is holding the line with a shield and people standing behind it.

Great, finally someone order side states that sh- purely physical dmg- is underpowered and needs buffs. I will make sure to bring your statement on this in every "sh op nerf" thread.

Also, I guess I been hallucinating all those years, seeing all those wls/ shs/ sws/ whs/ WEs / ibs roaming. Not sure where did it came from, guess it is something in the local water, will have to check it.

Also, I'm still trying to figure out how your special kind of math works, where every healer (700 will = 21% disr + 18% renown) or tank (20% tactic + 18% renown) means "Disrupt might as well not exist". For some reason, 38-39% - before htl- just seems to be more than 0%, still hadn't managed to find the error in the calculation.

I have 488 spirit ress of on my sov geared wh which is 30% mitigation. Magus debuff lowers that baseline by 370 according to career builder to 110 or 6.54% mitigation. I don't find non tanks use resistance liniments I don't think that's a plausible argument.

A WL with 660 pot and sov is like 3440 armor or 50.63% mitigation. Do you know much weaponskill I'd need to stack to get that guy to 6.54% mitigation?
Well my WH has 657 weaponskill which includes everything on gear, FULL talismans wpnskill cept one, and full 120 wpnskill from from renown. That takes the WL to 1826 armor.
During the 10second armor debuff from opener that puts him at 926 armor or 15.78% mitigation. So I can full tune my character to weaponskill penetration and get less penetration by default on a middle geared target than a baseline caster with no stat investment whatsoever.

I thought it was commonly established that physical damage dealing was as a standard gimped in this game by being forced into a secondary stat investment. I don't know why you're dying on this hill, but die you are.

[Zxul]

I have 488 spirit ress of on my sov geared wh which is 30% mitigation. Magus debuff lowers that baseline by 370 according to career builder to 110 or 6.54% mitigation. I don't find non tanks use resistance liniments I don't think that's a plausible argument.

If I, when roaming on for example magus, use toughness pot instead of say intel pot or crit lini, than there is no reason why you on your wh can't use a +360 all resists lini. If you chose to play as a glass cannon, then don't complain about taking dmg as a glass cannon.

A WL with 660 pot and sov is like 3440 armor or 50.63% mitigation. Do you know much weaponskill I'd need to stack to get that guy to 6.54% mitigation?
Well my WH has 657 weaponskill which includes everything on gear, FULL talismans wpnskill cept one, and full 120 wpnskill from from renown. That takes the WL to 1826 armor.
During the 10second armor debuff from opener that puts him at 926 armor or 15.78% mitigation. So I can full tune my character to weaponskill penetration and get less penetration by default on a middle geared target than a baseline caster with no stat investment whatsoever.

Let me introduce to a wonderful item called city dungeon weapon with a -800 armor proc. If I when roaming on WE used it, then so can you while roaming on WH. Now remake that calculation.

Also, let me introduce you to a WH tactic called Blessed Blade. Now remake the calculation yet again.

I thought it was commonly established that physical damage dealing was as a standard gimped in this game by being forced into a secondary stat investment. I don't know why you're dying on this hill, but die you are.

Great, I'm glad that you agree with Farrul that sh- a physical dmg dealer- is underpowered, and need a dmg buff. I will make sure to bring up your name in every thread asking for a sh nerf, thanks for your support.

[Andack]

Yeah, well, it's already a pain to play SL with all the nerf, so let's continue to go that way.

[Bavradai]

Bizarre changes. Overall the 9 target cap (Which I think could be increased to 12 instead) is a huge boon to the health of RvR warbands and the consistency and flow of fights. 24 target cap means fights are generally over in a few seconds once guarded AoE move into any group.
Squig nerf is cruel. Greenskins are the most nerfed race in the game, not one git has escaped the wrath of the nerf bat, our racial synergy has been broken since the start of the year.
I'm not sure where this game is going anymore. It seems directionless and haphazard.
Will have to wait and see how these changes turn out but I have little hope.

[leftayparxoun]

I have 488 spirit ress of on my sov geared wh which is 30% mitigation. Magus debuff lowers that baseline by 370 according to career builder to 110 or 6.54% mitigation. I don't find non tanks use resistance liniments I don't think that's a plausible argument.

A WL with 660 pot and sov is like 3440 armor or 50.63% mitigation. Do you know much weaponskill I'd need to stack to get that guy to 6.54% mitigation?
Well my WH has 657 weaponskill which includes everything on gear, FULL talismans wpnskill cept one, and full 120 wpnskill from from renown. That takes the WL to 1826 armor.
During the 10second armor debuff from opener that puts him at 926 armor or 15.78% mitigation. So I can full tune my character to weaponskill penetration and get less penetration by default on a middle geared target than a baseline caster with no stat investment whatsoever.

I thought it was commonly established that physical damage dealing was as a standard gimped in this game by being forced into a secondary stat investment. I don't know why you're dying on this hill, but die you are.

Quick correction: Armor penetration applies after armor calculations.
In this case it would be that armor is calculated first: 3440 - 900 = 2540 or 57.7%
Then your armor penetration applies: 57.7% * (1 - 657/14%) = 57.7% * 0.531 = 30.6% mitigation and not 15.8% as you calculated

That is of course if you have no additional sources of armor pen% from gear or tactics like Blessed Blade. These would be added to the penetration from weaponskill (= 657/14% here).

If you had no armorpen% from gear and only had the Blessed Blade tactic, the new result becomes:
57.7% * (1 - 657/14% - 0.25) = 57.7% * 0.281 = 16.2% mitigation

Let me introduce to a wonderful item called city dungeon weapon with a -800 armor proc. If I when roaming on WE used it, then so can you while roaming on WH. Now remake that calculation.

Due to stacking rules, this should not stack with other sources of armor debuffs from abilities, tactics imbuing abilities or other procs.
Meaning it should not stack with WH's Burn Armor (which is also higher than 800). If that's not the case maybe a bug report is in order.
It is a good fit for WE though, since they don't have access to an armor debuff via their kit.

[Nameless]

Mdps got benefit from their weapon dps and aa damage something that magic dps dont benefit. From there comes the difference of stats caps, stats that need to stack and so on.

At inital war stage magic dps needed wp to lower disrupt rate so at start many bw gear pieces got willpower but that consept fade away cos mdp and magic rdps works by totally different way

[Zxul]

Due to stacking rules, this should not stack with other sources of armor debuffs from abilities, tactics imbuing abilities or other procs.
Meaning it should not stack with WH's Burn Armor (which is also higher than 800). If that's not the case maybe a bug report is in order.
It is a good fit for WE though, since they don't have access to an armor debuff via their kit.

It indeed doesn't stacks with Burn Armor- unless there is some bug that I'm not aware of at least. It is however allows the wh to use a different opener which does more dmg- Sudden Accusation for example, it can be refreshed unlike Burn Armor which requires stealth to refresh, and unlike Burn Armor it can't be cleansed.