Lots of Numbers: Twilight's Tide Event Scenarios

[Ashoris]

The key to fun scenarios is randomness and some kind of auto comp building because:

I respectfully disagree. Scenarios would be much fairer if they were primarily 6 vs. 6

While i fully understand where you coming from i think a pure 6vs6 SC will be not good overall for the community. with such a low population we need some randomness to have a healthy mix to keep everyone motivated.

Also 12 vs 12 allows for way more variable grp compositions.


I still think that at max. 1prem + 1 random set would be the healthiest version for normal SC .... sometimes the better premade will lose due to better PUG adds on the other side which will help to keep everyone motivated.

• weaker premade have a chance to win vs better premades due to better adds

• Pugs will have a premade in SC they can support and have a chance to be the tip of the scale !

Another topic mentioned is that the PUG quality highly differs and that is something that could be adressed with some "hidden" MMR, just give the weaker prem some stronger PUG adds.

[siglade]

IIRC it is gear at or above Conqueror level.

Ranked is toxic, plain and simple and the rewards are crap. Also locks in your build/gear

The rewards are better from regular SCs? And how do you respec in regular SC?

Reward was nerfed, normal sc is more rewarding overall outside of insignia.

[siglade]

The key to fun scenarios is randomness and some kind of auto comp building because:

I respectfully disagree. Scenarios would be much fairer if they were primarily 6 vs. 6

While i fully understand where you coming from i think a pure 6vs6 SC will be not good overall for the community. with such a low population we need some randomness to have a healthy mix to keep everyone motivated.

Also 12 vs 12 allows for way more variable grp compositions.


I still think that at max. 1prem + 1 random set would be the healthiest version for normal SC .... sometimes the better premade will lose due to better PUG adds on the other side which will help to keep everyone motivated.

• weaker premade have a chance to win vs better premades due to better adds

• Pugs will have a premade in SC they can support and have a chance to be the tip of the scale !

Another topic mentioned is that the PUG quality highly differs and that is something that could be adressed with some "hidden" MMR, just give the weaker prem some stronger PUG adds.

Pug that try to play around premade are likely 5-10% of the current pug population in sc..

You will make 2-4man a lot worse too as they will be counted as premade, either they get another 2-4man or it will be 2-4+pug vs premade+pug.. 5man is already dead, you can be in q and wait 2h in prime time without pop (Note that 4man can rivalise against premade at some point)

[Uchoo]

Not to detract from the scope of this thread but..

Until a time where 6 players who didn't queue together have a similar potential to a full 6 man, there are going to be massive problems and scenarios will just continue to snowball and be one-sided stomps when it's premade vs pug, especially without forcing and matching roles.

For example, 6 players with 1 healer and no tanks should have around 80% of the potential of a standard 2-2-2 vs the.. I don't know maybe 40% they have now. I made these numbers up, not sure how you would actually measure that without poring over kill logs and setting criteria for analysis.

Furthermore, the first team to lose 1-2 people starts losing hard almost immediately and it snowballs out of control, which leads to a spawn camp and the scenario basically ends due to no reset mechanic at spawns.

[Ashoris]

Pug that try to play around premade are likely 5-10% of the current pug population in sc..
You will make 2-4man a lot worse too as they will be counted as premade, either they get another 2-4man or it will be 2-4+pug vs premade+pug.. 5man is already dead, you can be in q and wait 2h in prime time without pop (Note that 4man can rivalise against premade at some point)

that is a whole lot of assumptions by your side i never mentioned.
But too make it more clear :

max 1x 6man premade for a 12 man SC + PuG add (solo and smallman) makes it random enough for weaker 6 mans to have a chance (by having better adds) vs better premades because on a small server like this you need randomness or PvP will die. But only solo queue will also let PvP die, a lot of people enjoy this game with friends (there is a reason why PUG/discordant SC Pops declined HEAVILY after duo's were banned).

You need to find a way how everyone who is participating has a chance of winning without destroying the possibility of grouping up.

[gisborne]

The entire approach to pug sc is just not good enough. Starting by the name. Some players dont even know Discordant is a solo scenario.

Haha so true. I remember it was a long time before I knew what Discordant was and that it was any different than just queuing solo into regular scenarios. I thought it was some kind of special bonus scenario for elites.

[siglade]

Pug that try to play around premade are likely 5-10% of the current pug population in sc..
You will make 2-4man a lot worse too as they will be counted as premade, either they get another 2-4man or it will be 2-4+pug vs premade+pug.. 5man is already dead, you can be in q and wait 2h in prime time without pop (Note that 4man can rivalise against premade at some point)

that is a whole lot of assumptions by your side i never mentioned.
But too make it more clear :

max 1x 6man premade for a 12 man SC + PuG add (solo and smallman) makes it random enough for weaker 6 mans to have a chance (by having better adds) vs better premades because on a small server like this you need randomness or PvP will die. But only solo queue will also let PvP die, a lot of people enjoy this game with friends (there is a reason why PUG/discordant SC Pops declined HEAVILY after duo's were banned).

You need to find a way how everyone who is participating has a chance of winning without destroying the possibility of grouping up.

If you start to count small man as solo, it will create issue. 6man+small vs 6man+pug can be the same as double prem vs 1prem/pug.

Duo in discordant for example had a lot of impact compared to solo, having a friend on coms to make punt/kd etc was a big advantage.

I do like your idea don't get me wrong, especially when you can see during the prime time a lot of premame stacked on one side which make other side unplayable sometimes.