Patch Notes 06/02/2024

[Florian90210]

Nobody said anything about corp debuff for ib. I said elem debuff.
Why is it ok to allow BO further boost sorc dmg + its procs but its not ok for IB to boost bw dmg + its procs remind me please

Because IB is not a mirror of BO. BO's mirror is SM and he can debuff resists.

[nocturnalguest]

Its starting to be very stupid lads... im either baited into some special olympics or its just the usual forums which i somehow forget to not take seriously.
SM debuffs spirit dmg, it helps with WP aura procs which are spirit. There is no other significant spirit dmg to debuff. SM debuffs have nothing to do with BW dmg and procs are those are elemental.
BO debuffs corp dmg, it helps for mSH and sorc + procs which are corp. In meta comp you will not have any other debuff of same value as chosen passive debuff is half value.
It would be fine if BW aoe dmg would be much higher then sorc aoe dmg already but its not the case. Corp part for BW could be debuffed by engi, spirit part for sorc could be debuffed by magi. Here its parity.
So, again, its not ok to allow BO further boost sorc dmg + its procs with 380 debuff while there is no elem debuff on order side this big. Either corp debuff should go from BO or IB should get elem debuff. That would be more fair. Of course uptime should be same as well, so 10 (or 20 better) seconds of AA increase for both.

[Everdin]

Nobody said anything about corp debuff for ib. I said elem debuff.
Why is it ok to allow BO further boost sorc dmg + its procs but its not ok for IB to boost bw dmg + its procs remind me please

Because IB is not a mirror of BO. BO's mirror is SM and he can debuff resists.

It's not about class mirror, it's about ability mirror.

[Farrul]

Heavy Blow was always extremely strong. For reference DoTs with a 3s tick interval often have a scaling of 0.9 * Damage Bonus (DB). Translating that to a 1s interval like the DoT of Heavy Blow would be 0.3 * DB. Heavy Blow DoT had a scaling of 1.5 * DB. That is 5 times standard scaling.

Lets take a look at a similar skill of the Slayer: Relentless Strike. With 200 damage bonus Relentless Strike does about 680 damage in total. Heavy Blow did about 1700 damage. That is 2.5x the amount.

I've seen some peole say the damage was nerfed by 50%, which is not true. Only the damage bonus scaling was nerfed from 1.5 to 0.75. The total damage nerf depends on how much strength you have. Rough number would be somewhere between 20% and 35%. So with 200 DB HB still does about 1100 damage, still significantly more than Relentless Strike as reference.

I can only assume why Heavy Blow was made so strong by Mythic. Likeley to compensate for having to cast buffs that deal no damage, like Ancestor's Fury and Oathbound. Now Heavy Blow is still a very strong ability, but with the duration of Ancestor's Fury and Oathbound doubled and a buff to their channel and potential AA damage, bringing Heavy Blow down a bit is necessary to not have IB damage get completely out of line. I don't think anyone wants to see 4 tank 2 healer groups with DoK/WP bringing heal debuff.

It is kinda pointless to compare abilities without taking the actual class into context.

Slayer's do have a lot more melee power/ weapon skill than IB's who is a tank class and as such can't build offensive stats to empower abilities to that level, nor does he have the tactics for it.

A fair comparison would be 800 melee power IB / 550 ws vs 1150 melee power / 800 WS slayer.

Relentless strike is just a filler for the slayer whereas Heavy blow is significantly more important to the IB's damage rotation, not to mention the Grudges the IB has to build and maintain to ramp up the dot component. Mind you on a class that does not have the privilege of the mirror class Black Guard who get the + 5 hate on strike (free tactic / rising anger) for free and has a channel attack to regenerate surplus amounts of hate on crit.

The more powerful attacks of the IB were always balanced to their harder to regenerate resources, this is obvious to anyone who does small scale.

After this nerf they should definitely consider giving the IB rising anger as inherent effect.

[CyunUnderis]

Its starting to be very stupid lads... im either baited into some special olympics or its just the usual forums which i somehow forget to not take seriously.
SM debuffs spirit dmg, it helps with WP aura procs which are spirit. There is no other significant spirit dmg to debuff. SM debuffs have nothing to do with BW dmg and procs are those are elemental.

Maybe you missed the line in the patch where they changed Heaven's Blade (rework ability patch if I recall correctly) :


But you are right, there is no Order equivalent in terms of debuff as high as that of the BO to boost Elemental damages for the BW.

[nocturnalguest]

I stand corrected, thanks man. But its anyway ~100+ lower then what BO does

[zumos2]

Spoiler:

Heavy Blow was always extremely strong. For reference DoTs with a 3s tick interval often have a scaling of 0.9 * Damage Bonus (DB). Translating that to a 1s interval like the DoT of Heavy Blow would be 0.3 * DB. Heavy Blow DoT had a scaling of 1.5 * DB. That is 5 times standard scaling.

Lets take a look at a similar skill of the Slayer: Relentless Strike. With 200 damage bonus Relentless Strike does about 680 damage in total. Heavy Blow did about 1700 damage. That is 2.5x the amount.

I've seen some peole say the damage was nerfed by 50%, which is not true. Only the damage bonus scaling was nerfed from 1.5 to 0.75. The total damage nerf depends on how much strength you have. Rough number would be somewhere between 20% and 35%. So with 200 DB HB still does about 1100 damage, still significantly more than Relentless Strike as reference.

I can only assume why Heavy Blow was made so strong by Mythic. Likeley to compensate for having to cast buffs that deal no damage, like Ancestor's Fury and Oathbound. Now Heavy Blow is still a very strong ability, but with the duration of Ancestor's Fury and Oathbound doubled and a buff to their channel and potential AA damage, bringing Heavy Blow down a bit is necessary to not have IB damage get completely out of line. I don't think anyone wants to see 4 tank 2 healer groups with DoK/WP bringing heal debuff.

It is kinda pointless to compare abilities without taking the actual class into context.

Slayer's do have a lot more melee power/ weapon skill than IB's who is a tank class and as such can't build offensive stats to empower abilities to that level, nor does he have the tactics for it.

A fair comparison would be 800 melee power IB / 550 ws vs 1150 melee power / 800 WS slayer.

Relentless strike is just a filler for the slayer whereas Heavy blow is significantly more important to the IB's damage rotation, not to mention the Grudges the IB has to build and maintain to ramp up the dot component. Mind you on a class that does not have the privilege of the mirror class Black Guard who get the + 5 hate on strike (free tactic / rising anger) for free and has a channel attack to regenerate surplus amounts of hate on crit.

The more powerful attacks of the IB were always balanced to their harder to regenerate resources, this is obvious to anyone who does small scale.

After this nerf they should definitely consider giving the IB rising anger as inherent effect.

Are you trying to tell me that an IB with 160 damage bonus and 550 ws should deal equal damage to a Slayer with 230 damage bonus and 800 weapon skill? Else I'm not following what argument you're trying to make there.

For the record, we do take class differences into account and what role each ability has. We didn't nerf Heavy Blow to mirror Relentless Strike, it is still way stronger. I simply aimed to give some context to how strong the ability was exactly. I would think anyone unbiased could see it was a bit over the top. IB damage potential is still strong. And in a group context the total damage you bring has only been increased with Blood of Grimnir. Which can also increase your damage a lot, especially if you can proc your own AA haste.

[Detangler]

Spoiler:

Heavy Blow was always extremely strong. For reference DoTs with a 3s tick interval often have a scaling of 0.9 * Damage Bonus (DB). Translating that to a 1s interval like the DoT of Heavy Blow would be 0.3 * DB. Heavy Blow DoT had a scaling of 1.5 * DB. That is 5 times standard scaling.

Lets take a look at a similar skill of the Slayer: Relentless Strike. With 200 damage bonus Relentless Strike does about 680 damage in total. Heavy Blow did about 1700 damage. That is 2.5x the amount.

I've seen some peole say the damage was nerfed by 50%, which is not true. Only the damage bonus scaling was nerfed from 1.5 to 0.75. The total damage nerf depends on how much strength you have. Rough number would be somewhere between 20% and 35%. So with 200 DB HB still does about 1100 damage, still significantly more than Relentless Strike as reference.

I can only assume why Heavy Blow was made so strong by Mythic. Likeley to compensate for having to cast buffs that deal no damage, like Ancestor's Fury and Oathbound. Now Heavy Blow is still a very strong ability, but with the duration of Ancestor's Fury and Oathbound doubled and a buff to their channel and potential AA damage, bringing Heavy Blow down a bit is necessary to not have IB damage get completely out of line. I don't think anyone wants to see 4 tank 2 healer groups with DoK/WP bringing heal debuff.

It is kinda pointless to compare abilities without taking the actual class into context.

Slayer's do have a lot more melee power/ weapon skill than IB's who is a tank class and as such can't build offensive stats to empower abilities to that level, nor does he have the tactics for it.

A fair comparison would be 800 melee power IB / 550 ws vs 1150 melee power / 800 WS slayer.

Relentless strike is just a filler for the slayer whereas Heavy blow is significantly more important to the IB's damage rotation, not to mention the Grudges the IB has to build and maintain to ramp up the dot component. Mind you on a class that does not have the privilege of the mirror class Black Guard who get the + 5 hate on strike (free tactic / rising anger) for free and has a channel attack to regenerate surplus amounts of hate on crit.

The more powerful attacks of the IB were always balanced to their harder to regenerate resources, this is obvious to anyone who does small scale.

After this nerf they should definitely consider giving the IB rising anger as inherent effect.

Are you trying to tell me that an IB with 160 damage bonus and 550 ws should deal equal damage to a Slayer with 230 damage bonus and 800 weapon skill? Else I'm not following what argument you're trying to make there.

For the record, we do take class differences into account and what role each ability has. We didn't nerf Heavy Blow to mirror Relentless Strike, it is still way stronger. I simply aimed to give some context to how strong the ability was exactly. I would think anyone unbiased could see it was a bit over the top. IB damage potential is still strong. And in a group context the total damage you bring has only been increased with Blood of Grimnir. Which can also increase your damage a lot, especially if you can proc your own AA haste.

Only a 2H IB would care about increasing their own damage, so how exactly do you expect a 2H IB to spec up high in both trees and not sacrifice other key abilities/tactics?

If you were part of this change, I'm sorry that you seem to have taken all your knowledge of the class from looking at tooltips and career builders, cause it doesn't seem like you have actual experience playing the class or you would have seen the fault in your own logic.

[zumos2]

Spoiler:

It is kinda pointless to compare abilities without taking the actual class into context.

Slayer's do have a lot more melee power/ weapon skill than IB's who is a tank class and as such can't build offensive stats to empower abilities to that level, nor does he have the tactics for it.

A fair comparison would be 800 melee power IB / 550 ws vs 1150 melee power / 800 WS slayer.

Relentless strike is just a filler for the slayer whereas Heavy blow is significantly more important to the IB's damage rotation, not to mention the Grudges the IB has to build and maintain to ramp up the dot component. Mind you on a class that does not have the privilege of the mirror class Black Guard who get the + 5 hate on strike (free tactic / rising anger) for free and has a channel attack to regenerate surplus amounts of hate on crit.

The more powerful attacks of the IB were always balanced to their harder to regenerate resources, this is obvious to anyone who does small scale.

After this nerf they should definitely consider giving the IB rising anger as inherent effect.

Are you trying to tell me that an IB with 160 damage bonus and 550 ws should deal equal damage to a Slayer with 230 damage bonus and 800 weapon skill? Else I'm not following what argument you're trying to make there.

For the record, we do take class differences into account and what role each ability has. We didn't nerf Heavy Blow to mirror Relentless Strike, it is still way stronger. I simply aimed to give some context to how strong the ability was exactly. I would think anyone unbiased could see it was a bit over the top. IB damage potential is still strong. And in a group context the total damage you bring has only been increased with Blood of Grimnir. Which can also increase your damage a lot, especially if you can proc your own AA haste.

Only a 2H IB would care about increasing their own damage, so how exactly do you expect a 2H IB to spec up high in both trees and not sacrifice other key abilities/tactics?

If you were part of this change, I'm sorry that you seem to have taken all your knowledge of the class from looking at tooltips and career builders, cause it doesn't seem like you have actual experience playing the class or you would have seen the fault in your own logic.

The whole idea of Mastery Trees is that you have to make choices and cannot get everything you would want at the same time.

And if you think personal attacks are gonna help, I can assure you they wont.

[Alubert]

No doubt the IB will be strengthened.
25% AA crit dmg is a great enhancement for the party.
I don't understand why there is so much crying about one skill that beats less. After all, IB is a tank not a dps.
Looking only at IB itself if someone already cares so much about dps then 25% more crit dmg will compensate him completely for the reduction of dmg from one skill and in addition gives a big bonus to party.
MDPS AA dmg is around 30% so this is an amazing boost.

BG chop fasta is a good decision because no DD class should have such a skill but I think cd shortening should be eliminated from the game completely.

Rampage, it's hard to say if it's a nerf or an enhancement.
No gdc, no drop rage hmm.

Knight Unbalacing Attack cool idea it's just a shame that all the recent changes in abilities/tactics affect the whole party and in chosen not. Maybe enough of this inequality between these classes in the end?