Proposal: Discordant SC Weekly Event

[Sulorie]

...
Other than that I would change the matchmaking so if one of the sides got premade the system wait to find prem on other side then fill with pug other groups on both sides. Or put 2 groups of pugs on both sides. So by that the system should remove the possibility of 2 pug vs prem+pug and you will always got prem + pug vs prem + pug or pug vs pug

When there are no premades on one side due to low pop hours, there won't be any SC pop?

[CyunUnderis]

What's up with this community and gate keeping people how they want to play? What's the issue of someone wanting to play solo for a bit? Or maybe they don't have the time it takes to form a premade then que? This instant lash back of "Oh they shouldn't play solo they should only play with a group" is such a toxic way of thinking and has the consequence of pushing new players away.

Honestly there should be two ways of queing. Solo/Duo and then Permades. They should have their own ques and que timers. Also there should be punishments for people trying to manipulate the former. It's simply in the best interest of the server, not groups ego's.

Why players want to play solo in a game mode where teamplay and composition are the keys to win ? Why is it toxic to say that this is a MMO where you need to have interaction/synergy between class/player to win ?

I am more in favor of a system that makes it easy to form a group (where the leader defines the classes he is looking for, with RR constraints, gears, etc. and players join automatically) or that it is automatically managed by the game, rather than letting randomness decide the outcome of a scenario.

The excuse of "I don't have too much time to join a party" is quite counter intuitive because you need time to complete the Weekly Event. You will not do it in less than one hour. And really often, you see the same people, queuing alone, endlessly.

[Nameless]

...
Other than that I would change the matchmaking so if one of the sides got premade the system wait to find prem on other side then fill with pug other groups on both sides. Or put 2 groups of pugs on both sides. So by that the system should remove the possibility of 2 pug vs prem+pug and you will always got prem + pug vs prem + pug or pug vs pug

When there are no premades on one side due to low pop hours, there won't be any SC pop?

For premade - yes, go solo or duos. It is not perfect but overall it is better than current situation

[derKleineKerl]

Than we would be queuing solo and still be in the same sc.

[Gier]

What's up with this community and gate keeping people how they want to play? What's the issue of someone wanting to play solo for a bit? Or maybe they don't have the time it takes to form a premade then que? This instant lash back of "Oh they shouldn't play solo they should only play with a group" is such a toxic way of thinking and has the consequence of pushing new players away.

Honestly there should be two ways of queing. Solo/Duo and then Permades. They should have their own ques and que timers. Also there should be punishments for people trying to manipulate the former. It's simply in the best interest of the server, not groups ego's.

Why players want to play solo in a game mode where teamplay and composition are the keys to win ? Why is it toxic to say that this is a MMO where you need to have interaction/synergy between class/player to win ?

I am more in favor of a system that makes it easy to form a group (where the leader defines the classes he is looking for, with RR constraints, gears, etc. and players join automatically) or that it is automatically managed by the game, rather than letting randomness decide the outcome of a scenario.

The excuse of "I don't have too much time to join a party" is quite counter intuitive because you need time to complete the Weekly Event. You will not do it in less than one hour. And really often, you see the same people, queuing alone, endlessly.

Because this game isn't made only with group play in mind? You could que solo back in the day you can solo roam you can do tons of things solo. The developers never went out of their way saying "This is the right way to play this game". You still don't address any of the issue of someone not having the time or just not wanting to play with others in the moment. There is ZERO downside to allowing solo players to que into a system with other solo players. The only thing it reduces is pugs getting stomped. And at the end of the day that's just permades wanting easy farms.

Because I've been having this conversation for years, I've never once had anyone on the other side make a good argument for WHY there shouldn't be pugs. Beyond the "It's meant to be played X way." Which lets be honest, isn't an argument. Maybe someone wants to pop on and play casually? Maybe someone wants to do a SC once or twice and and then log? Why do you not want these people to have that option? It's honestly enraging.

Lastly the sad thing is already know I'll be replied too with "Well they should just make a group" As if I didn't explain or give reasons as to why this should be an option and way to be able to play the game. I guess I'm not here to pump up my own ego with a permade group crushing solo players and I just care about the game / server health more than most.

[nocturnalguest]

And really often, you see the same people, queuing alone, endlessly.

Have same observation. Alot of "i dont have time to join/form group" solo "heroes" are somehow have 4-5 hours per weekend day to q solo, (dont) embrace rng MM and end up losing 20-30+ matches thru weekend. Like, what?!!
Ill refrain from commenting the rest as its like 9999999 time this discussion goes on, hopefully team supports grouping up in MMO. And if one chooses to play solo, one must embrace obvious consequences and need to change mindset.

[CyunUnderis]

Because this game isn't made only with group play in mind? You could que solo back in the day you can solo roam you can do tons of things solo. The developers never went out of their way saying "This is the right way to play this game".

If you look almost every skills of support classes (tanks/healers), you will see that their are oriented into group play (for example, AoE heal, guard, morales, ...). Sure, developers never said that grouping is the right way (or solo is the wrong way) to play the game but by design, the game is group oriented, no matter what you think. Of course, you can solo roam, do solo in which game mode you want but it will not change the fact that you'll play automatically with others players at some points (in SC/in RvR), whether you want it or not.

You still don't address any of the issue of someone not having the time or just not wanting to play with others in the moment. There is ZERO downside to allowing solo players to que into a system with other solo players. The only thing it reduces is pugs getting stomped. And at the end of the day that's just permades wanting easy farms.

I think I am adressing this point : if grouping is fast and easy (thanks to tools in game), naturally players will join and leave parties when they have the time to do so. I don't mind grouping someone for 30mn if that allows my team to fill the remaining spot. It is just that a lot of players don't want to have social interactions and use the excuse of time, playstyle, etc ...

I see multiple downside by allowing solo players a weekly event :
- How do you balance PUGs SC ? Do you want it to be random or do you want it to be 2/2/2 ?
- If people are getting stomp in PUGs SC, because the opposite faction has one or two good balanced teams, it will not change the situation you'll see during Weekly SC against premade. So what is the next step ?
- This is development time used for one game mode when there are other game modes that require more attention.

Because I've been having this conversation for years, I've never once had anyone on the other side make a good argument for WHY there shouldn't be pugs. Beyond the "It's meant to be played X way." Which lets be honest, isn't an argument. Maybe someone wants to pop on and play casually? Maybe someone wants to do a SC once or twice and and then log? Why do you not want these people to have that option? It's honestly enraging.

I don't mind people doing SC once or twice and then log off or PUGs. SCs can be here for that. But I don't think Weekly SC should be easier. If you want the rewards from this event, you have to invest a little more than a few SCs here and there. And if I recall correctly, developpers have already say that if you want the rewards for this kind of event, you need to play accordingly.

Lastly the sad thing is already know I'll be replied too with "Well they should just make a group" As if I didn't explain or give reasons as to why this should be an option and way to be able to play the game. I guess I'm not here to pump up my own ego with a permade group crushing solo players and I just care about the game / server health more than most.

The PUGs SC is already here, and I'm not sure it is working that much (since they prevents duo to queue). But I don't see why it should be a Weekly PUG SC. The game became a lot more casual (on some good parts) and I think this is bad to lost more the teamplay aspect by giving more rewards into the PUGs SC.
From my personal experience, Weekly SC can be a lot of harder for the premades, especially when you need to face 2 premades and you have only one, or during 18v18 SC where your faction is pepe. For me, we should try more to raise the level of players on RoR, by making them play more in teams than solo. In this way, players will progress, work more on their team spirit and this will therefore allow for more interesting fights, for each faction.

[Helwer]

...
Other than that I would change the matchmaking so if one of the sides got premade the system wait to find prem on other side then fill with pug other groups on both sides. Or put 2 groups of pugs on both sides. So by that the system should remove the possibility of 2 pug vs prem+pug and you will always got prem + pug vs prem + pug or pug vs pug

When there are no premades on one side due to low pop hours, there won't be any SC pop?

when you claim you want "fair fights" there is a chance you wont get pops when match-maker cant create "fair fights"

[Helwer]

And really often, you see the same people, queuing alone, endlessly.

Have same observation. Alot of "i dont have time to join/form group" solo "heroes" are somehow have 4-5 hours per weekend day to q solo, (dont) embrace rng MM and end up losing 20-30+ matches thru weekend. Like, what?!!
Ill refrain from commenting the rest as its like 9999999 time this discussion goes on, hopefully team supports grouping up in MMO. And if one chooses to play solo, one must embrace obvious consequences and need to change mindset.

works well, population grows like hell - people love to change their mindsets to fit others - rofl

[Caleb]

If you look almost every skills of support classes (tanks/healers), you will see that their are oriented into group play (for example, AoE heal, guard, morales, ...). Sure, developers never said that grouping is the right way (or solo is the wrong way) to play the game but by design, the game is group oriented, no matter what you think. Of course, you can solo roam, do solo in which game mode you want but it will not change the fact that you'll play automatically with others players at some points (in SC/in RvR), whether you want it or not.

There are many multiplayer, group oriented games out on the market, from other MMORPGs to FPS to MOBAs and they are ALL group oriented games, that is nothing new. RoR is not the one and only special video game out there that is designed for groups of players to work together, in fact there are many much more complex team oriented games, and yet those games still heavily focus on the solo player experience.

The reason? Because no matter how much you try to force people to be social and play constantly in groups with others, that is not the reality and you can not force people to be social and there is always going to be a large majority of people who just want to have fun without bonus social dedication, or several other reasons from not being able to find the right characters/classes or people to be able to form a group with. This has been a trend for a decade now in gaming, and while I respect the idea of going the opposite direction, you can see that there is a large population even on RoR who prefer or are forced to play solo and no encouragement will change that, but you can choose to support that playstyle to have a steady player retention, which the server does need.

I don't see how the current Premade oriented queue system works better, considering there is always going to be 1 Premade group that dominates games after 1-2 games, and after that like you can experience it every weekend, the queue either dies down completely, or every reasonable player quits the Scenario queue and only those players stay who dont mind getting farmed 24/7.

It is a great system for those who make top premade groups and farm others, no doubt - no wonder those people like the system how it is. For everyone else? Not so much.

In a completely random Pug, there is at least the random factor of scrambling the teams if there are enough players to have differences between games.

- This is development time used for one game mode when there are other game modes that require more attention.

I don't believe creating a new Tome of Knowledge Influence Reward for Weekly Scenarios would be that "huge development time" like mentioned considering the system is already done and likely it would only require a few minor changes for a new Entry with the exact same mechanics that already exist on the server.

Though this is a mere speculation based on other server structure.

And if I recall correctly, developpers have already say that if you want the rewards for this kind of event, you need to play accordingly.

It is easy to say "just make a premade" or be social, yet on a daily basis groups are struggling to fill, with either not having tanks or healers - sometimes no classes present online AT ALL. You can not always make a premade and certainly not a good 2/2/2 to battle against another premade that even have voice comms. The expectation to just create a viable good premade any time you just log on to fight another premade is non-realistic.

People have schedule and moods and can't keep trying to make a good premade group for the whole weekend just to be able to have a chance at winning, which is what Solo queues are for in any multiplayer game. And even if you somehow magically get EVERYONE on the server to make a premade - since there is an archetype in-balance, what about all those DPS players who will be left without a tank or a healer to form their own groups?

There is no feasable, realistic solution to everyone making a group in a 2/2/2 system-based PvP Game. That is exactly why solo queues exist.