Killboard KDR should be removed!

[Hecksa]

It only has to change the playstyle of 1-2 wb leaders to have a massive effect on rvr. Certain wb leaders have got more defensive and only engage with a /t4 zerg. Yes they did it before, yes the would do it again if it was removed but I think they would do it less.

Think this is a really valid point that I'd not considered, I've updated my post above to reflect the changed opinion. I'm with you in that a change to remove the death count would be good.

[UnspeakableOath]

It only has to change the playstyle of 1-2 wb leaders to have a massive effect on rvr. Certain wb leaders have got more defensive and only engage with a /t4 zerg. Yes they did it before, yes the would do it again if it was removed but I think they would do it less.

I'd keep the kills just remove the deaths. Give rewards for top 10 guilds with most kills in rvr per week. That way your encouraging people to stay in the lakes to chase kills even when getting wiped and encouraging people to join bigger guilds. RvR a lot better with 4-6 wbs out in the lakes.

Garamore echoes my sentiment on this matter. His recommendation would improve the game environment and encourage players in my opinion.

[Caleb]

“It isn't an individual player issue, but affects the server's health as a whole. One shouldn't feel stressed or bad about fighting for their faction against the odds and dying in the Warhammer universe”

Opinion not a fact

IMO ths is not correct one should feel stressed about being below par in a pvp game

Campaign as a whole has no effect and doesn't affect anything. (City 2 instances with 624 players online)

Individual or guild performance affects your status in the community that is the only end game there is.

Git guud, be ignorant, accept, find your individual enjoyment or move on

Pitty dev representatives are posting in this thread

Far from being an opinion considering the server's lifeblood are the pugs and general playerbase who keep logging in day to do day to fight each other against the odds, or join whatever is currently happening on the server - and arguably not by the people who care about their "server status quo" or the best guilds on the server.

Yes, top guilds are very important for the best of the best fights that happen during prime-time, but apart from those 2-3 hours, there's 21 more hours in a day where unorganized and casual normal people play the game who generally only care about having fun - and like Garamore pointed out, if they are influenced by those 2-3 Pug Warband leaders who are already VITAL to the health of the game, caring about KDA, making less people participate in Forts/Keeps/Fights - you have a problem at your hand. And this mentality spreads very fast, just like Xrealm blaming and passive gameplay and Fight Dodging is visible in Region Chat on a daily basis now.

It's not a pity there is Dev Representation in this thread, but it is a pity that one might want these threads shrugged off without listening to valuable feedback from many long-time veteran players, who have "high status" on the server, just to quote you.

It only has to change the playstyle of 1-2 wb leaders to have a massive effect on rvr. Certain wb leaders have got more defensive and only engage with a /t4 zerg. Yes they did it before, yes the would do it again if it was removed but I think they would do it less.

I'd keep the kills just remove the deaths. Give rewards for top 10 guilds with most kills in rvr per week. That way your encouraging people to stay in the lakes to chase kills even when getting wiped and encouraging people to join bigger guilds. RvR a lot better with 4-6 wbs out in the lakes.

Thank you, you point out the core of the issue that I'm trying to convey here with many others.

[Uchoo]

I don't think Killboard has ever been mentioned as a motivation for gameplay choices in my circles. Even if it was about stats, we have in-game tools that show the same data, some of which we actually track.

Why do some leaders tend to blob and/or play cautiously?

Mostly because losing is a major drain on morale and they don't want to lose people. People often don't mind dying if it leads to some kind of victory, but a lot of dying with no tangible result is really draining for most.

Removal or change of Killboard would have zero impact on how people play, and it wouldn't really even change the availability of the data, just make it somewhat harder to see.

Killboard has already lost some great functionality due to people's egos, such as the list showing who did how much % of the damage on a kill.

[Caleb]

I don't think Killboard has ever been mentioned as a motivation for gameplay choices in my circles.

Without assuming too much, as I don't know all your circles, I would say that is because you are part of the Top 1% of the playerbase with exceptional stats, and part of one of the major if not biggest guild that affects the competitive parts of PvP. You farm others, not the other way around, or you aren't the guys who log off early from battles.

This is a problem the more you move lower on the "Skill" Axis, which coincides with the number of players exponentially growing. It is the players with less than stellar Profile Stats who are affected by this - or players who attempt to fake their stats by dubious gameplay methods. And I alone experience this behavior on a daily basis as I participate in leveling alts and having fun in Tier 1 for instance.

You can not know if removal of such stats would have effect on people, just as much as I can not fully prove the opposite, only raise concerns based on people's feelings and feedback in many different games on the exact same issue. KDA being criticized isn't an un-common topic. The personal opinion I have is that having every single player's death stats involuntarily tracked in an Mass-PvP MMORPG can / and I think have more negative consequences overall, than if it was partially hidden ( opt-in ) or not tracked whatsoever.

There's already enough feedback and conversations on this forum alone + RoR Discord combined that removal of such stats would have more than "zero impact" on how people play on the server, moreover it would certainly change the ability of players to check / track other player's Kill / Death Statistics, which you don't need if your only goal is to improve your and your own Warband's performance.

[Uchoo]

I'm very pro for changing the game for the average player rather than myself. I'll adapt to pretty much anything so I likely won't be affected.

When it comes to stats, I could agree with Finn and say 'let players have an option to hide their kills and deaths' except that it pretty much ruins the purity of stats. I could die to someone and have no idea who it was or what happened, simply to protect that person's ego.

I won't pretend that my perspective isn't different due to how I play the game but correct me if I'm wrong here, I can't think of a single game or study that has proven that hiding stats is better for player mentality. Whether or not they are hidden, what happens in the game remains the same and people learn how to analyze it.

How are we expected to use stats to analyze or improve when it will say "You died to redacted's redacted which dealt redacted.

If you are in tier 1 and people are playing cautiously instead of running it down on you, a lot of the tools that force interactions aren't acquired until late game like pulls and ranged slows. RoR is sometimes a game of patience, knowing and understanding what you can and cannot do in different situations.

[Caleb]

I don't have any links to studies that I can provide regrettably, which I'll try to fix if I can. Though on a quick google it is easy to find many different articles / studies on how negative statistics and feedback generally has a negative affect on the human mind and performance, which I would say is the same whether you are in a video game or at work. Delivery of these is also important factor to consider.

Hiding these stats, as conclusion is a quick-fix.

A logical jump I would like to make here is that I think large gaming companies in the industry, prone to the removal of more negative/performance stats such as Kill/Death ratio nowadays, or not including Deaths in the first place is also a good indication, since they likely have much more data on this matter I can ever provide.

This is also apparent by the recent appearance of more and more ranked / gaming systems focusing on rewarding the player more often than punishing - at the cost of better competitiveness, to overall increase/maintain playtime of their playerbase, through positive reinforcement.

Whether one agrees or disagrees with that approach is of course up to debate. I think it's a bandaid fix to a mentality problem - but I also don't think you can fix player mentality.

How are we expected to use stats to analyze or improve when it will say "You died to redacted's redacted which dealt redacted.

No one is asking for individual information to be hidden, so none of that would happen - it's simply a proposal to remove an Overall Summary of your Lifetime Kill/Death Ratio on your profile - which I doubt is a statistic you are analyzing much or use for improvement.

You could still see Scenario Kill/Death - Kills and Death tracked for Skirmish / City whatever. ( at least for what I say ) It's the tracking and summarizing of your lifetime statistics that leaves a badge on your profile.

[Uchoo]

Well it seems that we can at least agree that the stat is overall pretty meaningless, just fun. So if people are attacking you about your KDA, why not just ignore them?

Negative interactions with other humans are unfortunately a part of life, I like the block button personally.

[oaliaen]

It only has to change the playstyle of 1-2 wb leaders to have a massive effect on rvr. Certain wb leaders have got more defensive and only engage with a /t4 zerg. Yes they did it before, yes the would do it again if it was removed but I think they would do it less.

I'd keep the kills just remove the deaths. Give rewards for top 10 guilds with most kills in rvr per week. That way your encouraging people to stay in the lakes to chase kills even when getting wiped and encouraging people to join bigger guilds. RvR a lot better with 4-6 wbs out in the lakes.

Garamore echoes my sentiment on this matter. His recommendation would improve the game environment and encourage players in my opinion.

Very good idea

[Evilspinnre]

Simple solution:

Fix campaign so there is benefit to pushing zones and make city drop something unique, like account wide crests. Watch how many players stop caring about KD/A to try to push zones and win the campaign, and how many more organised city groups will form.