Reduced armor penetration.

[Gravord]

But nobody, has 100% armour pen. Most I've seen is around 50-75%.

Thats sadly not true. WE/WH can reach 100% arpen.

I'm not talking about ignoring armour. I'm talking about the armpen stat via WS.

WE tactic stacks directly with arpen obtained from WS and gear arpen bonuses. But sure, its not possible to get 100% just by WS alone.

[rejndjer]

in that case if SW has soft cap WS (1050ws=75% armor pen?) + armor pen.25% tactic for skirmish abilites, he gets 100% armor pen. too and guaranted 75% armor penetration? do i understand this correctly?

[Gravord]

in that case if SW has soft cap WS (1050ws=75% armor pen?) + armor pen.25% tactic for skirmish abilites, he gets 100% armor pen. too and guaranted 75% armor penetration? do i understand this correctly?

No, because Powerful Draw is in mysterious category that doesnt stack with WS in linear way but affects of whats left after WS arpen is applied.
So in a simple example, if you have 50% WS arpen SW with the tactic, half of defender mitigation will be reduced by your WS and after that 25% of whats left will be affected by your tactic. Meaning in that case tactic will only actually reduce 12.5% of initial armor. Higher your WS the lower profit tactic gives and the other way around too, you would actually get 25% arpen value of tactic only if your WS is 0.

[rejndjer]

in that case if SW has soft cap WS (1050ws=75% armor pen?) + armor pen.25% tactic for skirmish abilites, he gets 100% armor pen. too and guaranted 75% armor penetration? do i understand this correctly?

No, because Powerful Draw is in mysterious category that doesnt stack with WS in linear way but affects of whats left after WS arpen is applied.
So in a simple example, if you have 50% WS arpen SW with the tactic, half of defender mitigation will be reduced by your WS and after that 25% of whats left will be affected by your tactic. Meaning in that case tactic will only actually reduce 12.5% of initial armor. Higher your WS the lower profit tactic gives and the other way around too, you would actually get 25% arpen value of tactic only if your WS is 0.

interesting. thank you very much for clarifying this!

[Wiede]

interesting. thank you very much for clarifying this!

There are also more of that, like the old BG skill (before rework) Force of Fury (multiplicative to additive -%crit calculation) or WEs Septic Blade (same here afaik).

To confirm some of the input made in posts before:

Afaik
there's a 75% hard cap for physical damage reduction
your %damage reduction through armor - enemy %armor penetration = your physical damage reduction

125% physical damage reduction (your armor) - 56% enemy armor penetration = 69% physical damage reduction left for you
125% physical damage reduction (your armor) - 100% enemy armor penetration = 25% physical damage reduction left for you
125% physical damage reduction (your armor) - 25% enemy armor penetration = 75% physical damage reduction left for you (hard cap)

just remember (as said before): often skill based % armor penetration doesn't stack additivly but multiplicativly instead (and are often used to enable builds without any WS for physical damage archetypes like marauders piercing bite monstro builds so its balanced for monstro builds but much less useful for the other 2 trees).

If wrong, please correct me.

[Gravord]

interesting. thank you very much for clarifying this!

There are also more of that, like the old BG skill (before rework) Force of Fury (multiplicative to additive -%crit calculation) or WEs Septic Blade (same here afaik).

To confirm some of the input made in posts before:

Afaik
there's a 75% hard cap for physical damage reduction
your %damage reduction through armor - enemy %armor penetration = your physical damage reduction

125% physical damage reduction (your armor) - 56% enemy armor penetration = 69% physical damage reduction left for you
125% physical damage reduction (your armor) - 100% enemy armor penetration = 25% physical damage reduction left for you
125% physical damage reduction (your armor) - 25% enemy armor penetration = 75% physical damage reduction left for you (hard cap)

just remember (as said before): often skill based % armor penetration doesn't stack additivly but multiplicativly instead (and are often used to enable builds without any WS for physical damage archetypes like marauders piercing bite monstro builds so its balanced for monstro builds but much less useful for the other 2 trees).

If wrong, please correct me.

No, you got the numbers wrong. Using your own examples:
125% physical damage reduction (your armor) - 56% enemy armor penetration = 55% physical damage reduction left for you
125% physical damage reduction (your armor) - 100% enemy armor penetration = 0% physical damage reduction left for you
125% physical damage reduction (your armor) - 25% enemy armor penetration = 75% physical damage reduction left for you (hard cap)

[rejndjer]

excuse me, but how can a 125% armor target have 0% if hit by "100% armor pene" attacker. since 75% armor pene "hard cap"? so in that case 125% armor defender should still have 31.25% mitigation versus "100%" armor penetration target. if i calculated everything right
note: i used 100% armor penet. as guaranteed 75% armor penetration.

[PROsiak]

excuse me, but how can a 125% armor target have 0% if hit by "100% armor pene" attacker. since 75% armor pene "hard cap"? so in that case 125% armor defender should still have 31.25% mitigation versus "100%" armor penetration target. if i calculated everything right
note: i used 100% armor penet. as guaranteed 75% armor penetration.

That's the misconception i had. The 75% "hard cap" is on the physical mitigation u can get from armor. From what i tested around 3.3k armour u get ~75% damage reduction. But the armor penetration itself doesn;t have a cap, it's just that weapon skill at 1050 reaches "soft cap" and at that point gives 75%ar pen, but u can get armor penetration from other sources. So if u're able to reach 100% and the enemy doesn't have reduced armor penetration stat to counter that you basically ignore armour no matter the value.

[Gravord]

excuse me, but how can a 125% armor target have 0% if hit by "100% armor pene" attacker. since 75% armor pene "hard cap"? so in that case 125% armor defender should still have 31.25% mitigation versus "100%" armor penetration target. if i calculated everything right
note: i used 100% armor penet. as guaranteed 75% armor penetration.

Armor penetration stat itself doesnt have any cap.

100% arpen attacker on 5 or 5000 armor will ignore entirety of it. 100% of what defender have. If defender have 300000% armor mitigation it will still arpen ALL of that.
Armor mitigation cap is on defender side and the check happens at the end of all buffs and debuffs applied.

[Omegus]

But nobody, has 100% armour pen. Most I've seen is around 50-75%.

Thats sadly not true. WE/WH can reach 100% arpen.

Hello.
So i was wondering, how does reduced armor penetration work if somone has more armor pen than the cap?
I mean if someone has 100% armor pen (but the cap is 75 or 80 i dont remember) and i have 10% reduced armor pen, does that 10% lowers his ap from 100% to 90% so he's still hitting the cap ?
Also how common is it for destro physical dps'es to hit the cap on armor penetration ?

Armor provides physical mitigation up to 75% of attack you receive. Going above that helps offset armor debuffs and % based arpen of the attacker.
Armor penetration stat itself doesnt have any cap.
Reduced arpen works as direct counter to attacker arpen and generally provides good value.
Arpen example: 50% mitigation defender gets hit by 50% arpen attacker, that leaves him with 25% mitigation of inititial dmg.
There are various skills and tactics that affect arpen in a bit messy way, some are additive, some multiplicative, neither will tell you so its up to players to figure it out for now.

There's armour penetration and then there's ignores/bypass armour. The WE tactic (assuming we're on about Bleeding Edge) says it increases armour penetration so it will be additive with the armour pen from WS, the "armour penentration" stat on gear, etc.

The Marauder's Piercing Bite tactic bypasses 50% armour, so it applies to 50% of what is left after armour pen. The WH/WE ability that bypasses 100% of armour works like Piercing Bite. A good test - which can only be done on order abilities - is to see what effect the Marauder's monstrosity proc does to the attack as Monstrosity ignores all armour pen from attackers. However, the WH 100% bypass ability still does full damage as it's not armour pen, but instead bypasses what's left afterwards.

According to the tooltip, Powerful Draw applies to armour pen so should be additive with all other armour pen. If it's multiplicative currently then that sounds like a bug rather than a feature.