LOTD balance anyone?

[Wam]

LOTD - 14-08-2022 summary:

Order kills: 385
Destro kills: 1217

Zone population - we dont know, but Tier 2+:

Order: 41%
Destro: 59%

Conclusion: Destro farmed Order. No matter what Order can or cannot do, this is not balanced and not fun. Xrealm is a huge factor there too.

Solution: For good and competitive play, for good fights and for the fun, there should be equal population balance in the zone.

Discussion on:

133 db's from 4 dps out of our 12 man on destro

enemy wb's running away from our 12 man

from past events, ive known guildies who have been solo on order being top kills with 0 healers and 0 support... when we was on order as a 12 man we was top killers with destro wb's always adding into our fights ... while the "order guilds" spent literally the whole event regrouping at bitter... you cannot balance around being bad and having learn to play issues so cut the dev's some slack.

Conclusion: order need to learn how to fight, the usual stack and zerg tactics not working so well for order when tried

Solution: spend more effort on improving own combat effectiveness and skill level instead of asking overlords for assistance ... because three warbands chasing 12 people at the start of the event is a massive waste of manpower and also you then complain about "zerg" and population imbalance but when its like this its okay because it favours you? that is order mentality problem... you need to lure the combat ready and more effective warbands to CARRY order... you need beavers/oaths/nightmare/vii to stack order side but they have little interest in zerg event... so the only other solution is up own game, less combat effective groups need to really get organised... it was just like city and you ask for dev's to put training wheels on again

[Everdin]

Some reactions here are pathetic, if someone speaks about inequality in numbers there should be a way to discuss it together like adaults most of us are.

The reason for this is simple: What now is a problem on order is a problem for destro in a few month and vice versa.

You can't counter a number inequality of nearly 20% with "git gud" or "get organized", but instead of talking about solutions some forum-warriors start small fights over useless bullshit that hurted their ego.

[Omegus]

Best they could do is to even the numbers. As it should be from the beginning.

There is an equal population cap that both sides hit to begin with, then over time order seemed to have stopped queueing quite so much even though they had organised warband leaders much like destro did. Why?

[Wam]

Some reactions here are pathetic, if someone speaks about inequality in numbers there should be a way to discuss it together like adaults most of us are.

The reason for this is simple: What now is a problem on order is a problem for destro in a few month and vice versa.

You can't counter a number inequality of nearly 20% with "git gud" or "get organized", but instead of talking about solutions some forum-warriors start small fights over useless bullshit that hurted their ego.

the problem is people talking about balance and zerg when they are part of the problem

their inadequate fighting in the past has caused the current problem... there is no desire to self improve and "git gud" or "get organised" that is the problem... want cake and eat it without putting in any effort for just showing up. Destro got organised, if it isnt brogun, bombling, even destro pugs. Order can too, but are pretty inept at it, the "stack on me" and bring 50 people in same comms tactic didn't work out so they disappear... you needed to try different stratergies, and more small scale instead of "zerg to win" then complain when lose. Make multiple smaller groups with different roles, Dev's have made it easy to back cap there is tools to do this but order lack's will or awareness. So you reap what you sow from not learning the obvious that current stratergy doesnt work so mix it up and do your best. If you keep repeating same failed stratergies with same failed setups thing then blame balance I have some bad news for you its not a balance issue.

[Haojin]

It had to be discussion, Haojin, not the "cry me a river" post. But what should I expect, right?
Yes, we hunted your 12-man with Bene WB and 1 ally WB, thats because because of you if you have to know (a well known - hard to kill - bad ass moron, who has to be killed at all cost, nothing personal, you know).
But do I really need to shout here, how many times order were zerged yesterday? Really? I think not. Just read the topic and everyone with a brain allready know.

what you need to expect is you shouldn't whine about the stuff -getting zerged- while you are doing the same all the time. so you are telling me that you guys had several warbands coordinating (aka blobbing) together and still failing ? maybe don't waste your time chasing 12 man with 3 warbands while you losing every BO in the zone. that's on you my friend, i understand it's harsh to fail with 3 warbands hence you rushed to forums and started whining but this is gaming, sometimes you win sometimes you lose. hard to swallow pills, i guess.

It is not about who zerged who, and who is zerging and who is not (because both factions, and every organized guilds zergs in LOTD).
Question is, is it OK? Are you satisfied with it? Is it fun for you?

i am very satisfied and happy about the result. and yes it was fun for me. (thanks for the speedrun btw)

If you want just good fights and kills, why are you so afraid of balance pop, Haojin?

feel free to check the timestamp of 12:34 , let's see how 10v24 was ended.


Click here to watch on YouTube

[Wam]

133 db's from 4 dps out of our 12 man on destro

enemy wb's running away from our 12 man

from past events, ive known guildies who have been solo on order being top kills with 0 healers and 0 support... when we was on order as a 12 man we was top killers with destro wb's always adding into our fights ... while the "order guilds" spent literally the whole event regrouping at bitter... you cannot balance around being bad and having learn to play issues so cut the dev's some slack.

Conclusion: order need to learn how to fight, the usual stack and zerg tactics not working so well for order when tried

Solution: spend more effort on improving own combat effectiveness and skill level instead of asking overlords for assistance ... because three warbands chasing 12 people at the start of the event is a massive waste of manpower and also you then complain about "zerg" and population imbalance but when its like this its okay because it favours you? that is order mentality problem... you need to lure the combat ready and more effective warbands to CARRY order... you need beavers/oaths/nightmare/vii to stack order side but they have little interest in zerg event... so the only other solution is up own game, less combat effective groups need to really get organised... it was just like city and you ask for dev's to put training wheels on again

Are you really standing here defending an immense overpop for easy destro wins while throwing l2p accusations through this thread? Don't you see the irony in that? *SMH* These people....

if you read what i wrote... about some of my guildies being top killers on order with 0 support... and also we went order a couple times but your guilds regrouping the entire event, when we was fighting our asses off was a little bit triggering that you do not deserve that kind of help from us... warbands should be top killers in zone and carry, not small scale groups. The fact your warbands are not doing this is huge part of the problem, and the reason order get destroyed, so there is a issue, i addressed the issue for you... its not a balance issue, its not making the most of the tools you have available issue. Just like cities in the past, Dev's time is precious and should be spent where its needed most like orvr and real balance issues not faux balance issue.

See the point where order literally need oath/vii/nightmare/beavers to carry them because they as warbands know how to fight more effectively and are more adaptable. But they have little interest in zerg event and 2 of them could be on destro if they wanted also.

[Wam]

All these words and not a single reason why pop shouldn't be balanced in LotD aside of "I dont feel like it".

IIRC last time order was leading in kills, but had less players. Order stopped the destro zerg but the additional players capped the map.
My point? Kills don't matter as much as pop.

there is the same population cap for both sides mate

maybe there needs to be a bigger carrot to attract for lotd and not just lowbie cloak/jewl that got nerfed but that is different topic to "balance" issue... wrong words used.

Why is order not showing up? maybe previous bad performances where warbands attending are not carrying and lack of big enough carrot

[Wam]

To set thie straight: From my point of view you are arguing against a system that would improve LotD for both sides (as the pop advantage could swing back in favor of order at any time). You are focused on the current state and on destro perspective, instead of what is good for the game and in the long run.

I don't want a pop cap, I want pop balance. If someone leaves lotd, they should get a 2 hour quitter debuff and a halt to all renown and crest gain. It has to hurt.

Order is not showing up, because the non-casual order players seem to have a different mentality than destro. They avoid blobbing and rather run into their demise outnumbered. (From my experience destro starts to blob up and order is forced to follow that.) They can't do **** in LotD, so they boycott it. I wonder why they tend to not play cities though, should be right down their alley.

In regards of rewards, I'm not sure about the gear (could mess up balance in general, gear gap is already HUGE) but I agree that the end of "match" rewards should be greatly increased to incentivice people joining.

from my experience in lotd i dont really remember destro leaders stacking huge numbers in same discord and losing

I am not argueing in favour of pop imbalance far from it, I just find it a bit rich that the guy complaining about being outnumbered and "balance" is the same guy wasting time and resources with 72 people chasing 12 off point then complain about losing? you don't need to be a brain surgeon to know where you are going wrong hahaha... so 60 destro players can cap uncontested and push enemy spawn and this was the first engage LMAO

What have order done different each and every lotd to improve their chances besides whine?

[normanis]

To set thie straight: From my point of view you are arguing against a system that would improve LotD for both sides (as the pop advantage could swing back in favor of order at any time). You are focused on the current state and on destro perspective, instead of what is good for the game and in the long run.

I don't want a pop cap, I want pop balance. If someone leaves lotd, they should get a 2 hour quitter debuff and a halt to all renown and crest gain. It has to hurt.

Order is not showing up, because the non-casual order players seem to have a different mentality than destro. They avoid blobbing and rather run into their demise outnumbered. (From my experience destro starts to blob up and order is forced to follow that.) They can't do **** in LotD, so they boycott it. I wonder why they tend to not play cities though, should be right down their alley.

In regards of rewards, I'm not sure about the gear (could mess up balance in general, gear gap is already HUGE) but I agree that the end of "match" rewards should be greatly increased to incentivice people joining.

from my experience in lotd i dont really remember destro leaders stacking huge numbers in same discord and losing

I am not argueing in favour of pop imbalance far from it, I just find it a bit rich that the guy complaining about being outnumbered and "balance" is the same guy wasting time and resources with 72 people chasing 12 off point then complain about losing? you don't need to be a brain surgeon to know where you are going wrong hahaha... so 60 destro players can cap uncontested and push enemy spawn and this was the first engage LMAO

What have order done different each and every lotd to improve their chances besides whine?

still cant survive 1 death. would be top killer byt 1 death

[Strakar]

Also, they need to increase point gains so the zone completes quicker, then you can apply a quitter debuff. Particularly once a side gets ahead by a certain amount, like fort def.
The outcome is pretty clear in the first 30 minutes which side has numbers or is better organized, but not everyone has 2 hours to be locked into a futile exercise, win or lose.