[Marauder] Flail Suggestion

[wildwindblows]

Hello,

Monstro marauder is doing moderate aoe pressure and also it has really low single target damage. Only Pulverize provide damage when it hits crit. Therefore, I suggest to make flail as an mutation required skill. By this way, flail can take benefit from piercing bite tactic. What is your opinion?

Bests.

[Cyrylius]

Monstro marauder is low in ST damage cause it's a dedicated AoE damage/support class. First question is, why would you do anything ST in monstro? Even wrecking Ball had more DPS than flail spam, and gets the PB procs. Correct play is swapping into brutality (cause you already have to get the crit tactic from mid tree, I presume) apply rend and spam guillotine. Optimally you want to have a cd reduction up so that stances can be changed with no cooldown. Marauder is a class characterized by swapping into different mutations to get specific effects and skillets, if you already have a way of getting ST pressure even in AoE build then why do you need additional, weaker options?

P.S. flail being a mystery skill for me and having absolutely no use in any situation I could think of is another issue, so I'm perfectly fine with some potential changes. But 1. This change wouldn't be particularly helpful and 2. Marauder rework is currently one of the least needed ones across all the classes

[wildwindblows]

Monstro marauder is low in ST damage cause it's a dedicated AoE damage/support class. First question is, why would you do anything ST in monstro? Even wrecking Ball had more DPS than flail spam, and gets the PB procs. Correct play is swapping into brutality (cause you already have to get the crit tactic from mid tree, I presume) apply rend and spam guillotine. Optimally you want to have a cd reduction up so that stances can be changed with no cooldown. Marauder is a class characterized by swapping into different mutations to get specific effects and skillets, if you already have a way of getting ST pressure even in AoE build then why do you need additional, weaker options?

P.S. flail being a mystery skill for me and having absolutely no use in any situation I could think of is another issue, so I'm perfectly fine with some potential changes. But 1. This change wouldn't be particularly helpful and 2. Marauder rework is currently one of the least needed ones across all the classes

Ty for your response. If this class would provide the best aoe pressure in game i would agree with you. Aoe damage of mara is not promising. All utilities were taken from this class. To be honest when wh doing aoe morale drain and morale pump with one skill, I dont prefer to pick a silly tactic which gives 10% change to stop morale pump. I wont waste my tactic slot because of this. Therefore, I thought that providing a single target pressure would be nice.
Regarding to swaping stace, you are right, however in current meta, mara needs to stack toughness and armor to survive. If I swap to brut i will lose monstro proc (it is really hard to pop these procs against one target) and also lose 160 toughness/init so this is a huge trade off. Because of this in 1v1 it is not viable to swap stance. With this suggestion i also want to give monstro marauders a chance for roaming groups not only for warband play.

Idk how you think marauders rework is the least needed one? Currently, all oder mdps classes are overperforming on any role while marauders cannot fill any role properly.

[diegomess]

give maras a dual wield no mutation build already goddamnit

[Cyrylius]

Ty for your response. If this class would provide the best aoe pressure in game i would agree with you. Aoe damage of mara is not promising. All utilities were taken from this class. To be honest when wh doing aoe morale drain and morale pump with one skill, I dont prefer to pick a silly tactic which gives 10% change to stop morale pump. I wont waste my tactic slot because of this. Therefore, I thought that providing a single target pressure would be nice.
Regarding to swaping stace, you are right, however in current meta, mara needs to stack toughness and armor to survive. If I swap to brut i will lose monstro proc (it is really hard to pop these procs against one target) and also lose 160 toughness/init so this is a huge trade off. Because of this in 1v1 it is not viable to swap stance. With this suggestion i also want to give monstro marauders a chance for roaming groups not only for warband play.

Idk how you think marauders rework is the least needed one? Currently, all oder mdps classes are overperforming on any role while marauders cannot fill any role properly.

So, to begin with: aoe marauder is actually great class, contrary to what you're saying, even with having less damage than white lion, with the only for rupt on destro and AOE kd. And before you say that AOE kd is overrated: every organized warband leader will call it on every engagement. That means something. It still has ws debuff, too. Marauder has literally one tactic slot you can freely use, and going with JE on ale builds is fine.
Now to the solo build: what would that change actually give you? Which classes (solo specced, i mean) you'll be able to beat thanks to this? Did you do the math? Cause I'm suspecting that none, or maybe slayers. Marauder has pretty bad tools for soloing, and tbh if anything I'd rather have any other mastery tree changed for that. And if you really need that ST pressure in monstro: let marauders use tainted claw in monstro, shouldn't affect warband play and you get decent survivability and healdebuff for solo roaming. Just a loose idea.

[wildwindblows]

Ty for your response. If this class would provide the best aoe pressure in game i would agree with you. Aoe damage of mara is not promising. All utilities were taken from this class. To be honest when wh doing aoe morale drain and morale pump with one skill, I dont prefer to pick a silly tactic which gives 10% change to stop morale pump. I wont waste my tactic slot because of this. Therefore, I thought that providing a single target pressure would be nice.
Regarding to swaping stace, you are right, however in current meta, mara needs to stack toughness and armor to survive. If I swap to brut i will lose monstro proc (it is really hard to pop these procs against one target) and also lose 160 toughness/init so this is a huge trade off. Because of this in 1v1 it is not viable to swap stance. With this suggestion i also want to give monstro marauders a chance for roaming groups not only for warband play.

Idk how you think marauders rework is the least needed one? Currently, all oder mdps classes are overperforming on any role while marauders cannot fill any role properly.

So, to begin with: aoe marauder is actually great class, contrary to what you're saying, even with having less damage than white lion, with the only for rupt on destro and AOE kd. And before you say that AOE kd is overrated: every organized warband leader will call it on every engagement. That means something. It still has ws debuff, too. Marauder has literally one tactic slot you can freely use, and going with JE on ale builds is fine.
Now to the solo build: what would that change actually give you? Which classes (solo specced, i mean) you'll be able to beat thanks to this? Did you do the math? Cause I'm suspecting that none, or maybe slayers. Marauder has pretty bad tools for soloing, and tbh if anything I'd rather have any other mastery tree changed for that. And if you really need that ST pressure in monstro: let marauders use tainted claw in monstro, shouldn't affect warband play and you get decent survivability and healdebuff for solo roaming. Just a loose idea.

Can you explain more please? How marauder do great aoe? Wrecking ball hits 200-250 ticks with end game gear (5x off sov, 4xthriumpant). Obviously this class lack of anything. No damage No utility. 2 sec aoe kd the only remaning thing so if you talk about more about that it will be removed too.

[Omegus]

IIRC Flail benefitted from Piercing Bite on live, the logic being that the 2 hit version required a mutation. It was one of the Mara's strongest ST skills because of this, even in the defensive AoE spec.

[wildwindblows]

IIRC Flail benefitted from Piercing Bite on live, the logic being that the 2 hit version required a mutation. It was one of the Mara's strongest ST skills because of this, even in the defensive AoE spec.

Ty for comment mate. I know it was. But in 2018 patch some of the goodies were removed form mara. Currently it is hard effort less reward class in the game. My aim is not whining about marauder here. I'm trying to make a suggestion but ppl are doing offensive comment and underestimate my suggestion.

[Cyrylius]

Ty for your response. If this class would provide the best aoe pressure in game i would agree with you. Aoe damage of mara is not promising. All utilities were taken from this class. To be honest when wh doing aoe morale drain and morale pump with one skill, I dont prefer to pick a silly tactic which gives 10% change to stop morale pump. I wont waste my tactic slot because of this. Therefore, I thought that providing a single target pressure would be nice.
Regarding to swaping stace, you are right, however in current meta, mara needs to stack toughness and armor to survive. If I swap to brut i will lose monstro proc (it is really hard to pop these procs against one target) and also lose 160 toughness/init so this is a huge trade off. Because of this in 1v1 it is not viable to swap stance. With this suggestion i also want to give monstro marauders a chance for roaming groups not only for warband play.

Idk how you think marauders rework is the least needed one? Currently, all oder mdps classes are overperforming on any role while marauders cannot fill any role properly.

So, to begin with: aoe marauder is actually great class, contrary to what you're saying, even with having less damage than white lion, with the only for rupt on destro and AOE kd. And before you say that AOE kd is overrated: every organized warband leader will call it on every engagement. That means something. It still has ws debuff, too. Marauder has literally one tactic slot you can freely use, and going with JE on ale builds is fine.
Now to the solo build: what would that change actually give you? Which classes (solo specced, i mean) you'll be able to beat thanks to this? Did you do the math? Cause I'm suspecting that none, or maybe slayers. Marauder has pretty bad tools for soloing, and tbh if anything I'd rather have any other mastery tree changed for that. And if you really need that ST pressure in monstro: let marauders use tainted claw in monstro, shouldn't affect warband play and you get decent survivability and healdebuff for solo roaming. Just a loose idea.

Can you explain more please? How marauder do great aoe? Wrecking ball hits 200-250 ticks with end game gear (5x off sov, 4xthriumpant). Obviously this class lack of anything. No damage No utility. 2 sec aoe kd the only remaning thing so if you talk about more about that it will be removed too.

No idea, I just know it doesn't underperform in warbands.

[jonnytovey]

https://killboard.returnofreckoning.com ... 3ad67817c7
Literally 0 dmg in AoE, definitely not in vanq gear