[Suggestion] Hold The Line (Ability) Change

[illutian]

I feel like this should increase the users Block by 45% instead of their Dodge. Seems silly to be able to 'dodge' while holding up my shield and assuming a 'braced stance'.

I'd still keep the Dodge bonus for those behind, since the game itself isn't really moddable to facilitate a 'damage interception' feature.

I'd also make it drop the Dodge and Parry of the user to 0. And maybe only do 15% (instead of the current 45%) for Disrupt. This way magic users would be the 'go to' unit type to melt those using the ability.

NOTE: This isn't a "omg, buff/nerf" veiled suggestion. I literally just don't like that the game is buffing a Stat that would be 'zeroed' if it was real life.

[BluIzLucky]

Why suggest a change to HtL when there's actual useless or broken tactics and abilities in game?

And DPS AM/Sham are just way to strong, they can heal and do damage at the same and their dots will kill you.

Also even with setting parry to 0 (or -45%), being able to stack more block will be a big net-positive against melee.

[illutian]

Why the negative number?

Obviously the change would need balancing.

But I don't have a problem with being melted by magic. If I'm able to block, as I understand from the Tooltip, melee and non-magical ranged attacks. I need to have some weakness or I'm just OP.
...heck, it doesn't even need to keep the "45%" it could be lower.

I'm just suggesting it because it doesn't 'feel right'. With regards to how the animation and actual hit table modifier are polar opposites of Avoidance Types.

As to why I would suggest the change in lieu of fixing bugs. Well. I'm not. But this is the Suggestion sub-Forum. So only suggestions should be proposed here.

[Cyrylius]

So, to begin with, HtL is designed to counter heavy AoE pressure from ranged classes, both magical and physical. It's visuals are (I'm assuming) inspired by shield wall formation, which was indeed designed to protect from long range attacks. That's why it doesn't buff parry: it's purpose is different, you focus on intercepting spells and projectiles while possibly neglecting melee threats.

On the more practical side: disrupt and dodge are much worse resistances than block and parry, at least for tanks, as they don't work against any guard damage. That's why you can slap such a huge buff on an unlimited channel skill without breaking the game. On the other hand, parry buff and block buff are much more powerful, with block channels making classes using them virtually immortal for the duration. While you could argue that block makes more sense with the animation showing raised shield, giving every tank class 45% block channel is a huge balance change that would require various buffs, nerfs and reworks in order to work properly. And that's some more obvious arguments against changing the skill.

Almost forgot: block works against all attacks, period. In case I understood correctly and you assumed it does not work against magic.

[Omegus]

I feel like this should increase the users Block by 45% instead of their Dodge. Seems silly to be able to 'dodge' while holding up my shield and assuming a 'braced stance'.

I'd still keep the Dodge bonus for those behind, since the game itself isn't really moddable to facilitate a 'damage interception' feature.

I'd also make it drop the Dodge and Parry of the user to 0. And maybe only do 15% (instead of the current 45%) for Disrupt. This way magic users would be the 'go to' unit type to melt those using the ability.

NOTE: This isn't a "omg, buff/nerf" veiled suggestion. I literally just don't like that the game is buffing a Stat that would be 'zeroed' if it was real life.

Dodge and disrupt are explicitly chosen because Block will counter all attacks, including melee. Try not to think of dodge as actually dodging the attack in this case, but as avoiding being hit/affected by it as you have your shield up high to help defend you and the people behind you from ranged attacks (guns and bows) and magic attacks (fireballs etc) being thrown at you.

Finally, if you give dodge and disrupt different % bonuses for Hold the Line then the change greatly impacts one realm more than the other. This is because order has 2 primary ranged damage dealers (Shadow Warrior and Engineer) and only 1 primary magic damage dealer (Bright Wizard), while destruction has 1 primary ranged damage dealer (Squig Herder) and 2 primary magic damage dealers (Magus and Sorcerer).

[illutian]

-snip-

Ah, so it's more of a case of poor choice of words on EA Mythic's part when putting a name to 'ability that avoid ranged attacks'.

((When I think of Dodge, I'm thinking 'dodging the ball in Dodge Ball'.))

And yes, since Disrupt stats magic attacks. I figured Dodge, Parry, and Block were all for the physical attacks of Arrow/Bullets and Melee Weapons. As well as any abilities that would logically make use of those.

Which is why I only did the 'total avoidance' math using Dodge + Parry + Block when figuring out how much Avoidance was LOST by making the change. Since it, with this suggestion, would zero-out Parry and Dodge. My KotBS lost about 20% Avoidance.

---

-snip-

Ya, I get annoyed when words that have a 'mental image' associated are used to describe an action that doesn't align with that image.

As for the Damage Type difference....

I'm also assuming that 'in the code' the two HtL (Order's and Destruction's) are unique ability IDs. Which would mean the Devs could tweak to allow for more Block on Order's side...maybe 50%.

NOTE: Thanks to Cyrylius for explaining Block. I would also, now, set Disrupt to 0%; all Avoidance would be from Block now.

[Willard78]

Ya, I get annoyed when words that have a 'mental image' associated are used to describe an action that doesn't align with that image.

Brother, imagine the Spartans from the movie 300 in the phalanx position, they block all ranged attacks.

As for the Damage Type difference....

I'm also assuming that 'in the code' the two HtL (Order's and Destruction's) are unique ability IDs. Which would mean the Devs could tweak to allow for more Block on Order's side...maybe 50%.

Let's not make the one mirror that all tanks have in common complicated....Others have mentioned before, there are still broken abilities/tactics that need to be fixed...

[illutian]

Ya, I get annoyed when words that have a 'mental image' associated are used to describe an action that doesn't align with that image.

Brother, imagine the Spartans from the movie 300 in the phalanx position, they block all ranged attacks.

As for the Damage Type difference....

I'm also assuming that 'in the code' the two HtL (Order's and Destruction's) are unique ability IDs. Which would mean the Devs could tweak to allow for more Block on Order's side...maybe 50%.

Let's not make the one mirror that all tanks have in common complicated....Others have mentioned before, there are still broken abilities/tactics that need to be fixed...

HAH-OOT! ((Have no idea how the shout would be spelled; close enough, I guess!))

And obviously bug fixes come first. But as I said up a post or two, this is the Suggestion section. So, I only want to make suggestions here, and completely ignore any bugs; those go into the Bugtracker.

[Sulorie]

And DPS AM/Sham are just way to strong, they can heal and do damage at the same and their dots will kill you.

How good that other DPS have either more damage or utility and can get healed or we would have to call this unbalanced.

[nebelwerfer]

And DPS AM/Sham are just way to strong, they can heal and do damage at the same and their dots will kill you.

How good that other DPS have either more damage or utility and can get healed or we would have to call this unbalanced.

How does literally anyone have more utility than am ? aoe knockback with snare, ranged knockback for when people are piling on your friend, cleanse, he can HEAL(!!) through lifetaps and actual healing spells with no enemy target needed, he can RESSURECT people, best ST silence in the game, m2 blinding lights add a second casting time on 24 peoples spells..

I mean what the heck are you talking about. he got imba utility. and i even almost forgot ap drain, biggest aoe stat debuffs, single target crit debuff. i dont think you are being truthful here

edit: oh and also he can spam procc dispell magic which has a 25% chance of severing blessings with no internal cooldown, he can debuff spirit resistance which is his damage type.. that should be all