[AM]/[SHM] Balance Suggestions

[BluIzLucky]

Hey,

sorry to derail your thread. I stopped playing about 8 months ago but back then AM/Shaman were, overall and in my opinion, the worst healer in the game. Reading the comments in this thread would suggest that something changed and AM/Shamans are now fine?

Could someone point me to the relevant changes?

In regards to the proposed changes. It doesnt really look like anything new that hasn't been proposed in a similiar iteration in the past years. But I wish you the best of luck

Nerf to AP drain (increased cd), nerfed puddle to 15f.
HoT now hits 2 more if within 15f of target.
And I think WP got nerfed while you were active, but that tipped relative power a little too.
GCD changed to 1.5 sec, I think made things die slower, which I think may benefit AM more than e.g. WP.

Still weakest in ranked, and probably still considered weakest healer generally by most, Evil tends to optimize his groups and WBs and run with solid players, so I see where he is coming from and I see EoV do +30K a pop so I know the power first hand, so I think we have to be very careful improving healing.
Same for survivability, any buffs here will likely just make soloing even better.

And I know, these are not necessarily new ideas (specifically the mechanic point switcher), but just wanted to put my thoughts out there as I've reached BIS in heal and DPS and played every style in every gamemode tryhard and pugging, and improving group dps is for me the main concern of the class, the rest I'm generally happy with.

[BluIzLucky]

Whats the argument?

I think Sulorie maybe read the OP, so when you are the 4th person to say that AM/sham are good at soloing (which they are) on this thread mainly about improving group-play dps, he points out they are not better than actual dps at that.

Or is there any of my suggestions you think will have a significant impact on solo performance?

[Fenris78]

I'm not against Healer spec of both AM/Sham, playing an AM myself I think healing aspect is mostly fine, albeit less polyvalent than WP or Runie.
The buff to HoT making it AoE is very good, meaning you can quickly support a pack of random people blobbing together without having to go through targeting nightmare other are facing, and you have access to AoE direct healing (EoV) when you have to move, making you a more mobile healer than a WP with very good AoE support.

Except for tankiness, where AM need a bit more, especially compared to Shaman ability to kite and survive, healing aspect of both classes are fine to me.


But the AM/Sham DPS is waaay over the top ; a single 15s DoT like Get'n Smarter is doing TWICE the base dps of a maxed out one from other dps (SW, Engi for example, are at best around 2k over 15s).

Not accounting the fact you are facing at best a 40% magical resistance, wich you also can reduce to almost zero, AND debuff toughness for further effectiveness (the 214+ toughness debuff from Sham tactic is an absolute joke at this point, I still dont know why it's still not removed to match AM similar tactic).

This is leading to absolute madness, when a AM or Sham can litterally put 2 DoTs on you, without any other dbuff needed, and casually remove half your HP while running away with impunity. No other DPS can do that, other than BW/Sorc with max mechanic points AND massive crits.
AM/Sham are doing that casually and dont even need crits to deal real damage.

(Also, 1k4 x 3 ticks from the 3s channeled, the quickest burst I know wich deletes people everytime of the day).

The issue is casual access to massive amounts of damage, both from DoTs (twice as effective as other DPS, baseline), ST burst (channeled + tactic), AND still packing massive tankiness and/or control to kite/survive (shield, run away, lifetap cast on the move, etc.).

There should be some sort of tradeoff going DPS with these archetypes ; currently there are barely any (saving healing for others), while being over the top DPS on ST.

[Bozzax]

The top dps nonsense need to stop simply not true

Survival builds both am/shmy are effective solo ofc but mostly bc you can outlast most others. As soon as receiving end has heals you are fluff

Dps spec (both) don’t have room for defensive tactics and you loose puddles

[normanis]

Make some smiley's to highlight the irony in your post please. (here putted are u happy)

5 sec vs 10 sec (remove tactic walk between worlds)

It seems you don't even know how those skills work. Play them.

AM base skill is already better than shaman one and with tactic I pick it over shaman auto detaunt any day.

without tactic was mentioned it
what is 5 sec if global cooldawn is 1.5sec

[normanis]

so all post is about how dps sham/am is too good with so long dots . reduce tham and leave damage as it is. they are healers. look at dps runie he have nothing what am/sham has byt there is tryhard ppl as runmasta who still play runie. i didnt seen a single threads about runies who they st dps is so low.
problem is they still deal good amount of damage and same time their heals are strong in dps mode.
1 solution is revert back cast on move hot. it was changed for t1 in some years ago when t1 was highest. path of mork and healing energy.

[Sulorie]

so all post is about how dps sham/am is too good with so long dots . reduce tham and leave damage as it is. they are healers. look at dps runie he have nothing what am/sham has byt there is tryhard ppl as runmasta who still play runie. i didnt seen a single threads about runies who they st dps is so low.
problem is they still deal good amount of damage and same time their heals are strong in dps mode.
1 solution is revert back cast on move hot. it was changed for t1 in some years ago when t1 was highest. path of mork and healing energy.

There to is more than just damage to judge classes and zeal/RP have way more utility compared to shaman/am.
In DPS spec they are no healers despite having healing skills and other DPS classes get even more damage for less healing. Others trade more damage for more utility.

________________

Both classes have AOE detaunt for 10s but AM has only 5s downtime with tactic. Shaman AOE detaunt is worse, not to mention the worse secondary effect but they get auto detaunt proc.

[Cimba]

Nerf to AP drain (increased cd), nerfed puddle to 15f.
HoT now hits 2 more if within 15f of target.
And I think WP got nerfed while you were active, but that tipped relative power a little too.
GCD changed to 1.5 sec, I think made things die slower, which I think may benefit AM more than e.g. WP.

Still weakest in ranked, and probably still considered weakest healer generally by most, Evil tends to optimize his groups and WBs and run with solid players, so I see where he is coming from and I see EoV do +30K a pop so I know the power first hand, so I think we have to be very careful improving healing.
Same for survivability, any buffs here will likely just make soloing even better.

And I know, these are not necessarily new ideas (specifically the mechanic point switcher), but just wanted to put my thoughts out there as I've reached BIS in heal and DPS and played every style in every gamemode tryhard and pugging, and improving group dps is for me the main concern of the class, the rest I'm generally happy with.

Than I didnt miss anything major except GCD... and it doenst sound like it would shift the balance among healers in a significant way. Thanks for the summary.

[normanis]

so all post is about how dps sham/am is too good with so long dots . reduce tham and leave damage as it is. they are healers. look at dps runie he have nothing what am/sham has byt there is tryhard ppl as runmasta who still play runie. i didnt seen a single threads about runies who they st dps is so low.
problem is they still deal good amount of damage and same time their heals are strong in dps mode.
1 solution is revert back cast on move hot. it was changed for t1 in some years ago when t1 was highest. path of mork and healing energy.

There to is more than just damage to judge classes and zeal/RP have way more utility compared to shaman/am.
In DPS spec they are no healers despite having healing skills and other DPS classes get even more damage for less healing. Others trade more damage for more utility.

________________

Both classes have AOE detaunt for 10s but AM has only 5s downtime with tactic. Shaman AOE detaunt is worse, not to mention the worse secondary effect but they get auto detaunt proc.

with tactic its 15 (30 without tactic) sec cd and 5 sec uptime what u can use every 10 sec
shaman version is 30sec 10 sec uptime. and u cna use every 20 sec
20 sec is bigger cd than 10 sec byt. how good are 5 sec uptime aoe detount . is it helps u to survive if u are targeted by 6men? ( they can add in buffhead walk between worlds and just wait 5 sec while u are knocked or snared)

[Sulorie]

with tactic its 15 (30 without tactic) sec cd and 5 sec uptime what u can use every 10 sec
shaman version is 30sec 10 sec uptime. and u cna use every 20 sec
20 sec is bigger cd than 10 sec byt. how good are 5 sec uptime aoe detount . is it helps u to survive if u are targeted by 6men? ( they can add in buffhead walk between worlds and just wait 5 sec while u are knocked or snared)

It seems you are in good company with all those, who don't know how the AOE detaunt works.
Detaunt works on enemy targets, not on yourself like RP/Zeal DMG reduction buff.
What you see in your own buff bar with 5 sec duration is NOT the AOE detaunt.
Detaunt lasts 10sec for AM/sham and I hope you get it this time.