Choppa Pull, fix or delete it?

[Yshra]

Yes, you r right, as everybody will tell you, order got an overabundance of tanks and destro r all rdps...

And still nothing stops an order rdps player to create a tank to be useful for their realm. Or a healer, if there is a lack of certain classes. No dev work can fix selfish behavior or mindsets of "I want to play class x, no matter what and the game has to make it fair for me".

So all order are selfish and all destro are generous, and people dont have to play for fun or what they like... There are obviously reasons for that. I hope devs dont have this level of analyse.

[lumpi33]

Yes, you r right, as everybody will tell you, order got an overabundance of tanks and destro r all rdps...

And still nothing stops an order rdps player to create a tank to be useful for their realm. Or a healer, if there is a lack of certain classes. No dev work can fix selfish behavior or mindsets of "I want to play class x, no matter what and the game has to make it fair for me".

Why force people to roll a class they don't wanna play? Beside that the system would balance itself if certain ranged dps classes - that are currently underperforming - could actually harm that melee blobs. At the moment the melees only laugh at most of the ranged dps and shrug it off. Ofc everybody wants to play melee then. You can stack the aoe damage, you have higher armor, great utility and it's easier to guard them. Add stupid things like GTDC, rampage, vanish and stuff and they are superior to most ranged dps.

New players also roll what they want to play and not what is needed. They don't know which classes are good or bad, they just roll what they like. By the time they notice that their SW/Engi is actually bad compared to the rest they have already spend tons of hours and just quit out of frustration again. That's exactly what happened to https://www.twitch.tv/lev_ornstein who was a newcomer and streamer and rolled an SW and now left again.

Something is very off when things like that happen. For some reason nobody wants to see that or keeps ignoring it. You don't have to be Einstein to see that this is very bad for the population.

To close the circle and come back to the topic: Removing/nerfing certain stupid things people complain a lot and closing the power gap between certain classes to make them viable again would be a good step into the right direction. Being forced to roll tanks and choppas/slayers are the wrong direction.

[Sulorie]

To get this straight, there are user here who expect the game to be balanced in a sense that warbands with 4 tanks, 3 healer and 17 DPS classes beat warbands, which are more balanced?!
That you have a chance to win no matter what in a game with strict roles and no self-sufficient classes (outside of 1vs1) like in e.g. Guild Wars.
You don't have the same chances of winning, if you play whatever you want in a pug context, when everyone else does the same.

@billyk: Quit the order healer/tank are bad nonsense.

[Earthcake]

To get this straight, there are user here who expect the game to be balanced in a sense that warbands with 4 tanks, 3 healer and 17 DPS classes beat warbands, which are more balanced?!
That you have a chance to win no matter what in a game with strict roles and no self-sufficient classes (outside of 1vs1) like in e.g. Guild Wars.
You don't have the same chances of winning, if you play whatever you want in a pug context, when everyone else does the same.

@billyk: Quit the order healer/tank are bad nonsense.

You know that the same players play both sides right ?

Yet on one side they play tanks, on the other side they don't, what could possibly be the reason ??!

[Sulorie]

To get this straight, there are user here who expect the game to be balanced in a sense that warbands with 4 tanks, 3 healer and 17 DPS classes beat warbands, which are more balanced?!
That you have a chance to win no matter what in a game with strict roles and no self-sufficient classes (outside of 1vs1) like in e.g. Guild Wars.
You don't have the same chances of winning, if you play whatever you want in a pug context, when everyone else does the same.

@billyk: Quit the order healer/tank are bad nonsense.

You know that the same players play both sides right ?

Yet on one side they play tanks, on the other side they don't, what could possibly be the reason ??!

Those who swap regularly and play both sides organized don't bother at all. They don't build organized warbands with 15 dps, they play the roles you need to win.
The people complaining the most about class X or whole enemy realm being op are the ones playing only one side under the effect of "grass is always greener on other side"-syndrome.

[agemennon675]

To get this straight, there are user here who expect the game to be balanced in a sense that warbands with 4 tanks, 3 healer and 17 DPS classes beat warbands, which are more balanced?!
That you have a chance to win no matter what in a game with strict roles and no self-sufficient classes (outside of 1vs1) like in e.g. Guild Wars.
You don't have the same chances of winning, if you play whatever you want in a pug context, when everyone else does the same.

@billyk: Quit the order healer/tank are bad nonsense.

You know that the same players play both sides right ?

Yet on one side they play tanks, on the other side they don't, what could possibly be the reason ??!

Those who swap regularly and play both sides organized don't bother at all. They don't build organized warbands with 15 dps, they play the roles you need to win.
The people complaining the most about class X or whole enemy realm being op are the ones playing only one side under the effect of "grass is always greener on other side"-syndrome.

I am playing on both sides and I prefer my rr80+ chosen/BG on destro both as 2h or snb spec and never go 2h as kotbs (well everyone know why). Being stuck with only one playstyle snb aura/guard bot gets boring really fast so I prefer playing other classes on order. I wonder how many others do the same we cannot possibly know

[lumpi33]

To get this straight, there are user here who expect the game to be balanced in a sense that warbands with 4 tanks, 3 healer and 17 DPS classes beat warbands, which are more balanced?!
That you have a chance to win no matter what in a game with strict roles and no self-sufficient classes (outside of 1vs1) like in e.g. Guild Wars.
You don't have the same chances of winning, if you play whatever you want in a pug context, when everyone else does the same.

@billyk: Quit the order healer/tank are bad nonsense.

You know that the same players play both sides right ?

Yet on one side they play tanks, on the other side they don't, what could possibly be the reason ??!

Those who swap regularly and play both sides organized don't bother at all. They don't build organized warbands with 15 dps, they play the roles you need to win.
The people complaining the most about class X or whole enemy realm being op are the ones playing only one side under the effect of "grass is always greener on other side"-syndrome.

Exactly, you say it yourself "they play the roles you need to win". On order that is slayer/wl/wp/rp and maybe 1 BW or WH. On destro it is choppa/mara/dok/zealot/shaman and maybe 1 sorc or WE.

That's the meta for ages now. You gotta play 2/2/2 comps and you gotta play these dominating classes. So out of 24 spots they usually take 0 or 1 ranged dps, which is usually Sorc/BW. If you don't play a meta class and don't get a spot in such warband then you are just free renown for these 2/2/2 premade wbs. That's the status-quo for at least 2 years now and the patches in that time only made it worse, like the Raze moral change for even more melee aoe.

It's not the players fault, it's the systems fault that you cannot mix classes and still be competitive. That's a fact. The longer it is gonna stay that way the more it is gonna hurt the population until the critical mass is reached and there are no more SC pops and dead RVR zones. Don't wanna be too negative but it is pretty obvious that we are heading into this direction when looking at the pop decrease of the last year.

A good start would be to nerf that GTDC, rampage, WE/WH vanish, sorc rotation and regen crap and up the obviously underperforming classes that currently nobody wants in wbs. The one sided zergs with the pvd are also a big issue that needs fixing. That's the things people complain the most. Start listening.

[Rapzel]

Considering the pull also interrupts channels and casts, it is way over the top. As far as I am informed, getting pulled and punted removes defenses on your character. If that is the case, I'd recommend to start there and remove that.
Not just that you can't control your character during flight, you are out of position afterwards, which is insanely strong on it's own.

Proven to be a Order Prider urban myth.

I can help with the destro tanks > order tanks

On my chosen i got 50% parry without any renown nor parry gear. It's just there, for free, cause i look good.
On my BO, I press a button and get 50% block, again just cause i look strong.
Destro tanks got better defenses, better morale gen, better CC.

I got a 1.6 KDA on my chosen playing snb almost all the time. The day they remove rampage i go 75% parry and never die again ,ever. And it's the same for other destro tanks. WHILE having better CC and faster morale.

tldr : except CD reduction, destro tanks do everything better.

Theres the door sir.

bring it to their attention that Order players had enough of it, for the good of the game it's one of those things that shouldn't be allowed to remain as it has a detrimental effect on one side of the player-base.

if you can't make the game work for you currently as an order player i'm not sure you will ever be happy
I understand that you feel it's a balance issue and honestly maybe it is however to make this ability less effective while Order is literally winning hand over fist constantly and without listening to the other side of the playerbase in regards to balance, honestly it's breathtaking

We are discussing how to fix the issue and not nerf the choppa in that turn. Destro priders keep flooding in derailng the discussion to "dont nerv muh choppahs!QQ". You can't have a serious discussion thanks to these dumbasses.

Oh and in case you are wondering why order is dominating atm, destros are mainly playing their order alts atm.

I am quoted because? GTDC removing avoidance is a Order prider myth.

Earthcake also whines about IB time resources management what do you expect? A serious and unbiased discussion?

He fails to mention that Order tanks have higher amounts of raw damage mitigation, compare BO Ya Missed Me with Dragon's Talon
20% physical damage reduction vs. 20% damage reduction that can be improved with the Raking Talons tactic.

What Destro tank has a AoE interrupt?
The list of group utility that Order tanks have that Destro tanks lack is just as long if not longer than the access Destro tanks has to self pumping avoidance, and apparently the fact that the suppression ability is "mirrored" to SM triggers order priders.
In their mind the game is symmetric and there for KotBS need it, they only see shield rush vs suppression.
Yet they tend to "forget" abilities such as Oathbound.

Oh and in case you are wondering why order is dominating atm, destros are mainly playing their order alts atm.

doesn't that just prove the hypothesis that the balance is decided by the players not the careers?

[licenje]

Problem with GTTC is that is skill that has 1%+ chance to one hit ppl with geting stuck in stuff (player hitboxes, wall, rocks, doors, geting pulled under floor) depending on terain... its skill that was introduced in RoR i tink, and is so badly coded that it has no spot in game.

[wachlarz]

Problem with GTTC is that is skill that has 1%+ chance to one hit ppl with geting stuck in stuff (player hitboxes, wall, rocks, doors, geting pulled under floor) depending on terain... its skill that was introduced in RoR i tink, and is so badly coded that it has no spot in game.

Its imposible to code Gork&Mork magic. You have to accept it.