[SW] Quick fixes to noticeably improve the Quality of Shadow Warriors

[Moert]

Whispering Winds and Chop Fasta are bad for the game imo. Relying on having a certain class with a specific specc in your group to reduce your CD's is poor design. It's gimmicky and the order elf classes rely heavily on it to be viable in many situations. Make the classes viable without CD reductions or give the classes their own CD reducers.

[Omegus]

SW really need buff

You should open a ticket.
Festering arrow has a 5 seconds cd and it hit you between 22:36:08 until 22:36:12, in 4 seconds 4 times which should be impossible

BR
Messerjockel.

Whispering Winds reduces the cooldown by 5 seconds, which lets you spam it. Lasts for 10 seconds, on a 20s cooldown (so 50% downtime).

[Fenris78]

Spoiler:

SW really need buff

You should open a ticket.
Festering arrow has a 5 seconds cd and it hit you between 22:36:08 until 22:36:12, in 4 seconds 4 times which should be impossible

BR
Messerjockel.

Whispering winds + Focused mind M2. Need specific combo but it's perfectly doable. Bad luck here was to be critted each time, since SW crit chances are around 50-60% max with Bullseye tactic.

[Sulorie]

SW really need buff

You should open a ticket.
Festering arrow has a 5 seconds cd and it hit you between 22:36:08 until 22:36:12, in 4 seconds 4 times which should be impossible

BR
Messerjockel.

While he opens a ticket, you can read the post before yours. :^)

[lumpi33]

SW really need buff

You are a tank? You are getting crit 6 times in a row? Get futile strikes. Gotta blame that on you.

Beside that it was probably the damage boost, focused mind and winds active. With all that he still didn't managed to kill you.

Only thing to point out on that screenshot is the 189 (-685) hit. That's how much everything beside Fester gets mitigated. Imaging trying to kill a 10k health tank with 200 hits. Some tanks have more passive regen than the SW can do.

[mryay]

1. Flame arrow is more or less ok. it could be buffed a bit, but not that much. The change I would though is 1 add a duration buff included either in the tactic "Keen Arrow", or to add it to tactic "Smoldering Arrow" to turn it actually worthwhile (for example, increase damage on impact, +50% blast radius, and increased duration).

2. Undefendable FA on Enchanted Arrow is also an idea to consider. It works well with "Burn Through" on the Bright Wizard. But Vengeance of Nagarythe already give this buff. So maybe Glass Arrow is a better fit with better synergies?

3. I also made a suggestion back in the day to have Sweeping Slash a directed long Punt. The reason was, if you consider the number of omnidirectional punts that SH's has, the state of SW isn't a match at all. So, in Assault stance you could, as core skill, have the self-punt (whirling pin), or "sweep" (push back) several opponents at once.

1. I think Flame arrow damage was scaled accounting the "ignore resistance" tactic, when both magical arrows were in scout tree ; now that tactic is wonky (scout mastery buffing a now skirmish skill), I dont see any use for it anymore.
Even before, flame arrow damage was pathetic, with or without tactic slotted.

Imagine every other DoT is doing twice as much damage in the same timeframe ; ok, the other ones are ST while flame arrow is base AoE, but either it needs further buff from Vengeful state (increased range and AoE radius), or be switched to another type of damage, like Spirit, to synergize better with strong debuffs (elemental debuff is at best 165 Order side, while Exploding Arrer can synergize with Magus elem debuf of 400 or so).

Actually Flame arrow is never picked ; max utility you can squish out from it is to be able to hit Oil when non-scout specced.
Otherwise make it a small AoE elem resistance, I dunno, but bring some utility to this lame skill, at least to make it worth spending 1 point more in skirm tree...
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2. Smoldering arrow better be uber good to be worth any slot, otherwise it will be subpar to every other tactic choice. Floating tactic slot on SW is about zero to one, depending on build...
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3. I like the directional punt idea, wich is clearly lacking Order side, and can add a little tool for kiting. If this skill is going to stay at 20s cd, at least bring more utility into it, and to match a squig directional kb will be a small victory anyway. It also would allow ranged specs to create a bit more space when fighting against multiple enemies, and ultimately should need to switch to assault stance to hit better (getting str from it will bypass more parry ofc).

In fact, you are right. Flame Arrow should be spiritual damage. It works well with Archmage and SM spirit debuff, push the Elves synergies even further. The odd thing is that, VFX wise, Lileath's arrow would make more sense. Maybe that should be intent to slot Smoldering Arrow and add a Flame Arrow deals spiritual damage. To be discussed.

[shoelessHN]

Make festering arrow do 10k unmitigated and be insta cast. Put stacking BHA back in, but make it 5x now.

[messerjockel]

SW really need buff

You should open a ticket.
Festering arrow has a 5 seconds cd and it hit you between 22:36:08 until 22:36:12, in 4 seconds 4 times which should be impossible

BR
Messerjockel.

While he opens a ticket, you can read the post before yours. :^)

Did read again and yes, I missed it.

BR

Messerjockel

[mryay]

Somehow i dont feel like an ability that hits like this needs a 33% baseline reduction to its cast time (which will also result in No Quarter further reducing the remaining casttime by half)

Its likely the heaviest hitting ability in the entire game. With resist ignore it hits harder than BoC and Fireballs/Doombolts (Snipe isn't even close since its damage was nerfed a while ago and it goes against armor anyway).

Eye Shot being castable on the move is a bold suggestion considering SH's counterpart, which is castable on the move, has a shorter range, shorter KD duration, lacks Initiative debuff and doesn't have CD reduction mechanic I definitely don't think this game needs more castable-on-the-move ranged CC abilities on ranged classes, kiting is already a bit too strong, sorry.

Counterstrike having 5s CD would mean you'll have an interrupt ability that has a shorter CD than cast time of Resurrect Which has rather game-breaking implications in 6v6 play and probably even beyond that
Definitely "No" to that, even 10s wouldn't be appropriate coz it'll be 5s with WW.

Shadow Sting and SH counterparts are already strong (or OP ) enough being a ranged heal debuff with no cooldown

Sweeping Strike probably just needs to lose its cooldown and serve as spammable melee AoE, since im pretty sure the experiment with making Skirmish a WB spec has failed, correct me if im wrong...

1. In a normal Festershima build, with BiS gear, the Festering Arrow is part of the S tiers hardest hitting ability of the game. On par with Doombolt (Sorc), Fireball (BW), and Bolt of Change (Magus). For all of these abilities I have been hit, and I have hit beyond the 3k mark.
Now let's compare what is comparable because it's important to tell the full story:
- SW: 3K+ undefendable Festering Arrow need: Top Sout tree + 1 skill point in FA + Enchanted Arrow Tactic + No Quarter Tactic + Steady Aim buff on + VoN buff on (10s window each 30s, undefendable only apply during this timeframe) + Critical Hit. || FA is 2s cast, 5 sec cooldown, 37.5 AP

- BW: 3K+ undefendable Fireball you need: Top Incineration tree + Full combustion + Burn Trough tactic + Critical Hit || 3s cast (or instant on disrupt with Flashfire), no CD, 30 AP, chance to lose 750 HP

Then,
- if I want to chain FA on the SW: +group play with Swordmaster + Winspering wind skill point (14 Hoeth) + Whispering Wind buff on (10s every 20s)
- If I want to chain Fireball on the BW: just do it.

Also:
Steady Aim buff increase AP cost (hence FA go from 30 to 37.5). Then the other skills, mainly Eagle Eye goes to 50 AP, Fell the weak ~43.8 ==> you run quickly out of AP. And most of the time you run out of it. You have options, like sloting "replenishing strikes" tactic (+40AP on crit, with internal CD), but then you have choices to make like having bulls'eye or not, etc.
- When a SW run out of AP: Hunter Fervor -> spend 25AP to receive +9 AP/s during 9s. And again, this is from a BiS RR80+ SW
- When BW needs AP: use Burn Out (+160 AP, lose 40 combustion) -> chain with Nova (+40 combustion, you're back on 100% combustion + damage dealt ~1300).

This is why I am insisting on Quality of Life. I am fine that BW/Sorc do most of the time better DPS/burst damage than SW. But during the VoN window, and with the support of a Swordmaster/WW, the SW would normally do better than any other DPS (10s hero). Otherwise, what's the point of Scout?

2. Eye Shot, arguable, I agree. I wouldn't mind going from 3s to 2s. Castable on the move is more important

3. Counterstrike. It's a good argument. But also, it is unlikely that a Destro group would let the SW chain interrupt Rez. Punt, Stun, you name it. And also, the counterpart is Insta Rez (Dat make me dizzy). Furthermore chaining Counterstrike is not the most efficient damage wise, but it is a tactical choice indeed, to use it or not.

4. Shadow Sting is the reason why SW is a viable alternative in group/wb. The problem is that the 65 feet harms Scout gameplay. When I play SH, I observe there this a slight advantage because of Gaz Squig's range buff + No arrow restriction on stances + and parallel DPS from both SH and Squig. To be discussed

5. Here I disagree. SW doesn't need another spammable AoE ability. Skirmish is perfectly crafted for that (except for the dangerous range). Assault stance design must be oriented toward a mix of deadly swift strikes and evades (Think like a Striking Scorpion in Warhammer 40k). And, to be part of the leading charge, a defensive group buff fits nicely, in my humble opinion.

[Sever1n]

Bw>sw in all aspects. Sw long time just a mess. Billion topics started, zero changes. Whole sever knows sw is a weakest dps ingame. All it have is fester combo burst after wich u stand zero ap, and it never enough to kill geared char. Melle sw just shitty version of we/wh casting sw shitty wersion bw/sork, skirm sw shitty version lion, slay, bw. Zero use in wb, zero use city. Devs just hate sw for some reason. Just check what squig have in his kit and comoare it to sw. But yep we have op op op fester that scratch guarded target onse in 5sec. Check what burst can do sork and compare it with sw. Nothing to add. But everytime we have some skilled destro/swotp came in and his topics and say sw op!