Witch Hunter: Wit or Fortress Weapon?

[Machiara]

Hi all,

Any thoughts on whether Wit or Fortress Weapon is better? Fortress gives me a 39% to crit chance (as opposed to 36% with WIt) but Wit has the armor dissolve ability. I've tested it on the training dummies and I don't see a very noticeable difference in time to kill. Has someone done the math on this?

[reynor007]

if you use the blessed blade build then Wit is useless, moreover, its effect doesn't stack with burn armor+
in other builds, this weapon has a place to be

[Machiara]

Does the effect stack with Sigil of Destruction? I'm guessing no.

[Fenris78]

Wit is a plain armor debuff, wich wont stack with similar effects like burn armor. However, it will stack with armor ignore effects, albeit its efficiency will be lowered by final % armor ignore (and WS of course).

So if you already got 75% effective arpen (usually 25% WS + 50% bonus from tactic or SoD), the -800 initial armor debuff proc will only be -200 after armor penetration.
It's still around 5% less mitigation from enemy armor, but the return on investment is not very high, especially since the proc is random, so effect will be marginal as you already noticed.

Better use Fortress Pistol, wich will net you more offensive stats, and a damage proc that will be increased by the Bloodlord rapier 5% damage bonus.
You will lose a bit on AA damage (Wit is slower, thus dealing more per hit, and AA speed from off-hand is irrelevant since triggering from main hand attack only), but off-hand attack is not very efficient anyway so it wont matter much.

[Electus]

Wit is a plain armor debuff, wich wont stack with similar effects like burn armor. However, it will stack with armor ignore effects, albeit its efficiency will be lowered by final % armor ignore (and WS of course).

So if you already got 75% effective arpen (usually 25% WS + 50% bonus from tactic or SoD), the -800 initial armor debuff proc will only be -200 after armor penetration.
It's still around 5% less mitigation from enemy armor, but the return on investment is not very high, especially since the proc is random, so effect will be marginal as you already noticed.

Better use Fortress Pistol, wich will net you more offensive stats, and a damage proc that will be increased by the Bloodlord rapier 5% damage bonus.
You will lose a bit on AA damage (Wit is slower, thus dealing more per hit, and AA speed from off-hand is irrelevant since triggering from main hand attack only), but off-hand attack is not very efficient anyway so it wont matter much.

+1

[Mindbleed]

Wit is a plain armor debuff, wich wont stack with similar effects like burn armor. However, it will stack with armor ignore effects, albeit its efficiency will be lowered by final % armor ignore (and WS of course).

So if you already got 75% effective arpen (usually 25% WS + 50% bonus from tactic or SoD), the -800 initial armor debuff proc will only be -200 after armor penetration.
It's still around 5% less mitigation from enemy armor, but the return on investment is not very high, especially since the proc is random, so effect will be marginal as you already noticed.

Better use Fortress Pistol, wich will net you more offensive stats, and a damage proc that will be increased by the Bloodlord rapier 5% damage bonus.
You will lose a bit on AA damage (Wit is slower, thus dealing more per hit, and AA speed from off-hand is irrelevant since triggering from main hand attack only), but off-hand attack is not very efficient anyway so it wont matter much.

What about the other way around? Fortress rapier and Bloodlord pistol? What can you say about the Bloodlord swords having different attackspeed, which is better and in what situation? When should the Bloodlord weapon be the sword and when the pistol? How does dual wielding work in this game and how should i be mindful of it, when picking out my weapons?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, but your post got me thinking about efficiency, as i am about to pick my first BL and Fortress weapon.

[Fenris78]

Wit is a plain armor debuff, wich wont stack with similar effects like burn armor. However, it will stack with armor ignore effects, albeit its efficiency will be lowered by final % armor ignore (and WS of course).

So if you already got 75% effective arpen (usually 25% WS + 50% bonus from tactic or SoD), the -800 initial armor debuff proc will only be -200 after armor penetration.
It's still around 5% less mitigation from enemy armor, but the return on investment is not very high, especially since the proc is random, so effect will be marginal as you already noticed.

Better use Fortress Pistol, wich will net you more offensive stats, and a damage proc that will be increased by the Bloodlord rapier 5% damage bonus.
You will lose a bit on AA damage (Wit is slower, thus dealing more per hit, and AA speed from off-hand is irrelevant since triggering from main hand attack only), but off-hand attack is not very efficient anyway so it wont matter much.

What about the other way around? Fortress rapier and Bloodlord pistol? What can you say about the Bloodlord swords having different attackspeed, which is better and in what situation? When should the Bloodlord weapon be the sword and when the pistol? How does dual wielding work in this game and how should i be mindful of it, when picking out my weapons?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, but your post got me thinking about efficiency, as i am about to pick my first BL and Fortress weapon.

Hello,

Autoattack with dual weapons is calculated from your main hand weapon speed, with a 45% for every AA hit to "proc" the secondary weapon attack, with lowered damage value (calculation is different, still taking into account secondary weapon dps and speed, but secondary attack will always be lower than primary, cant remember the exact formula).

As general rule, it's best to equip the fastest weapon in main hand (the lowest speed value), to proc more often the secondary hand, at the expense of damage value per hit (you may need to calculate the dps by dividing the hit value per weapon speed).

In most cases, fast weapon for primary AA will help to get gear and tactic procs more often, but will have less burst damage.
Slow weapons will have more punch (multiplier is weapon speed) per hit, but will hit less often.
Generally, DPS is more or less the same for all options, depends if you want more sustained damage/procs or more burst.

Main weapon attack damage is like : ((STR / 10) + Weapon damage)* Speed.

So yes, the other way around is still good (equipping bloodlord matchlock + fortress Sabre), you just need to calculate your dps, knowing that Wit with a speed of 4 will hit significantly harder than fortress matchlock, thus only proccing 45% of the time.

There is no absolute rule for that matters, you just choose if you really feel the need for the armor debuff or not.
Remember that the proc is 10% and applying to AoE attacks as wel like burn armor and Dragon Gun, so it could be more useful in WB/Funnel situations to help your friends. If you only play solo/ST builds, the armor debuff is useless to you as soon you got up to 70-75% ArPen.

[F4llen4ngel]

Do I misunderstand Blessed Blade tactic effect, as increasing armor penetration by 50%, so if you have a base 30%, after tactic triggers, it will be 45% (30+ half of 30) and not 80%? I may, but am not sure.

[reynor007]

Do I misunderstand Blessed Blade tactic effect, as increasing armor penetration by 50%, so if you have a base 30%, after tactic triggers, it will be 45% (30+ half of 30) and not 80%? I may, but am not sure.

look at the description and check, this tactic gives +50%, does not increase your value, but just gives +50%
30%+50%=80

[Mindbleed]

Wit is a plain armor debuff, wich wont stack with similar effects like burn armor. However, it will stack with armor ignore effects, albeit its efficiency will be lowered by final % armor ignore (and WS of course).

So if you already got 75% effective arpen (usually 25% WS + 50% bonus from tactic or SoD), the -800 initial armor debuff proc will only be -200 after armor penetration.
It's still around 5% less mitigation from enemy armor, but the return on investment is not very high, especially since the proc is random, so effect will be marginal as you already noticed.

Better use Fortress Pistol, wich will net you more offensive stats, and a damage proc that will be increased by the Bloodlord rapier 5% damage bonus.
You will lose a bit on AA damage (Wit is slower, thus dealing more per hit, and AA speed from off-hand is irrelevant since triggering from main hand attack only), but off-hand attack is not very efficient anyway so it wont matter much.

What about the other way around? Fortress rapier and Bloodlord pistol? What can you say about the Bloodlord swords having different attackspeed, which is better and in what situation? When should the Bloodlord weapon be the sword and when the pistol? How does dual wielding work in this game and how should i be mindful of it, when picking out my weapons?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, but your post got me thinking about efficiency, as i am about to pick my first BL and Fortress weapon.

Hello,

Autoattack with dual weapons is calculated from your main hand weapon speed, with a 45% for every AA hit to "proc" the secondary weapon attack, with lowered damage value (calculation is different, still taking into account secondary weapon dps and speed, but secondary attack will always be lower than primary, cant remember the exact formula).

As general rule, it's best to equip the fastest weapon in main hand (the lowest speed value), to proc more often the secondary hand, at the expense of damage value per hit (you may need to calculate the dps by dividing the hit value per weapon speed).

In most cases, fast weapon for primary AA will help to get gear and tactic procs more often, but will have less burst damage.
Slow weapons will have more punch (multiplier is weapon speed) per hit, but will hit less often.
Generally, DPS is more or less the same for all options, depends if you want more sustained damage/procs or more burst.

Main weapon attack damage is like : ((STR / 10) + Weapon damage)* Speed.

So yes, the other way around is still good (equipping bloodlord matchlock + fortress Sabre), you just need to calculate your dps, knowing that Wit with a speed of 4 will hit significantly harder than fortress matchlock, thus only proccing 45% of the time.

There is no absolute rule for that matters, you just choose if you really feel the need for the armor debuff or not.
Remember that the proc is 10% and applying to AoE attacks as wel like burn armor and Dragon Gun, so it could be more useful in WB/Funnel situations to help your friends. If you only play solo/ST builds, the armor debuff is useless to you as soon you got up to 70-75% ArPen.

Very insightful and helpful, thank you.

Do procs like Fortress weapon and Wit trigger from all attacks equally? Does it matter, if they are equipped in main or off? Does weapon damage or speed have any effect in your abilities? Ive learned from other games, that slower main hand weapons are generally better in pvp, would you say thats the case in RoR?