RvR, AAO and incentive for actual fights

[abezverkhiy]

I have been playing on and off since the server started, never seriously, just hanging around with some friends and nothing "endgame".

When I came back three weeks ago, I deleted all of my characters to start fresh and re-learn the game again, since it was long ago that I played for the last time.

I´m playing Destro, I cannot talk about all game issues you all mention here, I will just tell you my personal experience:

I have been in many keep sieges since I came back, destro side, maybe like 12 or so in the last couple of weeks: Destro never won any keeps while I was in the warband.

I tried to level my characters in scenario and it was impossible because we were losing all mid tier scenarios , most of the time due to the lack of healers, so I had to turn to orvr to keep leveling up and geting renown: Not enough exp and not enough renown either because we were heavily outnumbered all the time.

I went to the official discord to look for options and ask the veteran players how I should level up my characters if I was losing all scenarios and orvr wasnt going very well either: Their answer varied from switching sides to "dont complain about scenario unbalance because if there was balance queues would be very slow".

Seeing this post and the replys makes me wonder if it´s really worth it to keep leveling and fighting because apparently it doesn´t get any better.

Hopefully DEVS will try to fix the issue with Destro side being "destroyed" all the time, because if I wanted uneven fights and unfairness, I wouldn´t login WAR, I would just sit down and watch the news.

I can understand your frustration as a new player. I play Order and while levelling my toons I was often asking myself - "Why do so many guys choose to play Destro? Don't they see enough sh!t in real life to be on the bad side when they play mmos?" So this feeling is mutual not just you as a Destro player. Numbers of players vary. Last few months numbers declined strongly for various reasons and any disbalance in numbers feels much harder now.

I levelled a few toons in scenarios only but it was a year+ ago. My opinion is that right now scenarios became more for premades and less for pugs. You encounter premades more often these days. This is the reason why I stopped playing scenarios completely although previously I enjoyed them when I levelled my IB, SL, and WP.

I do not know what class you are levelling but I suggest two things:
a) find a well populated guild to play with so you are always with a strong team
b) in RvR always stay with a crowd until you get Vanquisher gear because plenty of players have top gear already and you won't have chances against them.

This is a wonderful game but right now it struggles a bit due to loss of part of population and people start asking this question - "what am I doing here?" Just find a good group and be careful until you get decent gear.

[lastalien]

I thnk the biggest issue, by far, is the domination of Order warbands in terms of organization and numbers.

GMT+3. I, as part of 1 or 2 groups, always find superior forces of the destros for a fight in the evening

Many thanks to Grufrip and Ocara. With respect for your efforts to make the game more fun

[Caduceus]

I thnk the biggest issue, by far, is the domination of Order warbands in terms of organization and numbers.

GMT+3. I, as part of 1 or 2 groups, always find superior forces of the destros for a fight in the evening

Many thanks to Grufrip and Ocara. With respect for your efforts to make the game more fun

More numerous, maybe. It seems to ebb and flow. However a numerical superiority does not translate into success, as often even with numerically superior forces Destro cannot push keeps, let alone forts.

To fight guild warbands you need guild warbands, to fight warbands that are communicating between each other, you need warbands that communicate as well, etc. In my experience these are currently lacking on Destro, though there are exceptions. This was especially bad during the summer, but maybe now that the summer dip is over some guilds become active again.

[lastalien]

More numerous, maybe. It seems to ebb and flow. However a numerical superiority does not translate into success, as often even with numerically superior forces Destro cannot push keeps, let alone forts.

This was especially bad during the summer, but maybe now that the summer dip is over some guilds become active again.

There is a similar situation on the order, even well-known guilds, and of course pugs, can leave you in battle.

Now recruiting has become decently lively and I think within a month we will get a decently larger number of participants in the rvr

[zulnam]

Yesterday had awesome fights in both Cale and CW. Started with us having AAO, but after we defeated one siege attempt in Cale numbers went even.
Then we defended a siege in CW.
The last siege in Cale was really difficult tho. Order was guarding the posterns so getting into the penetrated inner courtyard was a nono. After 2nd door went down however, we managed to route the enemy. In part thanks to their forces being split in 3. Some were still outside the keep, some where inside at bot and some where fighting lord. We wiped then one by one.

Special shoutout to Nightmare and Forced Entry who met us on the field. Nice fights.

But my fav was later when i was in a 6-man in emp t3. We had aao 120%, but managed to get almost 100 kills. So many good fights, we even managed to push order all the way into the keep when they were on our lord; then we realised we don't really have the numbers to clear them same thing, order was split. Easy picking. We still lost the zone but the bounty was PHAT. Got 50% of my current RR done.

I don't know what you people want the devs to fix. This is a player issue.

Sorry for rant, please resume whining.

[Kaeldrick]

I don't know what you people want the devs to fix. This is a player issue.

I don't know why devs are "fixing" things nobody asked for in the first place : change to Oil, change to rewards from captures...

I agree with you in a certain point of view : game was fun and many enjoyed it like it was. So why did they make so many (unwanted and unwelkomed) changes?

[Boomie82]

oil change is good and people asked for it for a long time...

[Fenris78]

The issue is not about nerfing zerg : the AAO penalty is already doing precisely that, to deter farming solos with warbands and going 1 rp doing that.

The issue is to add another penalty to get the campaign going forth ; players cannot magically switch sides to even out numbers, when unbalance is needed to capture zones.

So adding another malus to PvDoor is not IMO the way to go, especially when supply running have been nerfed too, effectively discouraging players to do anything in zone when their realm is overpopulated.

Since every renown gain looks like indexed on kills, its also adding a third penalty to the dominating realm : you cant do nothing if enemy is not showing to fight you, so you are penalized trice for being here at a given time ?

That makes no sense at all ; previous rewards for keep take and zone lock were already reduced when no fight occured, but at least they were decent, and didnt give you the feeling you either lost your time or live on an inadequate timezone (too bad for you, move on).

RP gains are currently abysmal, and getting "only" a 12k keep closure reward after like 1k kills on zone (last night after CW defense against destruction), was a bit dishearthening, knowing before it would have been double reward, at least.

Same on fortress takes ; we cannot invent more enemies when defending realm is greatly outnumbered, so basically attacking realm is penalized for being here and pushing fort, like, playing the game on its very basis.
And now you got sub-10k reward, while it was like 20k before. Given the fact fortresses gives no AAO at all, it's meager, at best.

And I'm not even talking about the 1-2 vanquisher you now earn after zonelock, wich is either an oversight side-effect, or a very, very, bad decision.
Imagine being fresh 40 and having to collect full vanquisher (about 900 medals), with 1-2 medals a zone... Even with boots/gloves and (weighted) loot from gold bags, it will take forever with the new system, not to mention the renown needed...

[GamesBond]

I don't know why devs are "fixing" things nobody asked for in the first place : change to Oil, change to rewards from captures...

While I can agree that some changes have not been asked for, we have a valid reason for a lot of these changes.

RP nerf from Oil kills:
Regarding the change to oil, I gathered feedback mostly from active warbands and some warband leaders. I surely did not ask everyone, but the decision of removing RP from Oil kills was unanimous. Oil is the most important defensive mechanic one can play around in order to defend a keep, and this mechanic was being taken advantage of by many for personal gains. Apparently most warbands did not mind losing the RP gain from oil because they're often the ones who are holding doors and posterns while oil is being thrown for 4-5 kills.

Change to rewards from captures:
The intention of that change was purely to help the zones get more fights but it's a dev action that needs to be well accepted by the community in order for it to thrive. I agree with you, the outcome of that change is bad, and this isn't what we wanted. That's why I have discussed the issue with Dalen and we agreed to revert that change the soonest in order to bring back previous RP rewards.

As Zulnam said, there are a lot of issues that are caused by players. There are also issues that are caused by the team, believing that a change could have a positive impact while it actually doesn't. Of course the intention is positive and the idea would be based on fixing a present issue, but we cannot figure out the real impact until it's been released and tested for some time.

Nevertheless, the important thing is to keep an open communication and take proper actions, whether it was you, as players, adapting to a more team-oriented behavior that doesn't somewhat exploit the system for rewards, or devs reverting/implementing necessary changes that satisfy enough of the community.

[Strakar]

Thanks, GB, great news! The oil change has been perfect, no more 5% oil drops.

Zulnam is right, when lightning strikes you have a really awesome rvr experience. My favorites are a keep defense where you hold and eventually rout a superior force. Just need some mechanics in place to facilitate because humans will be humans.