Sorc/BW Time for Escape

[Caduceus]

the main problem is that players just don't want to learn, Sorc and BW are good kiters and there are some great examples on the server
this is far from the strongest sorc, but he understands what he is doing


Click here to watch on YouTube

Frozenover I think many people also know, and no one in a battle against him will say that forty is a bad escaper

Comparing kiting in 1v1 to kiting in ranked is just silly. I can go into great detail why that is the case, but I think it should be self-evident to anyone who has done both.

Also, what tools does Sorc have to be called a "great kiting class"?
- Arctic Blast -> 2 Sec cast time makes it unusable when being chased
- Grip of Fear -> Your tanks will shout at you if you give enemies punt immunity for a root that can be broken in an instant by all melee classes in the game.

That's it.

The other tools Sorc has are Flee + AP pot (available to every class in the game) and M2 Focused Mind (available to every ranged class in the game).

I mean honestly, what are you basing such a statement on? And thanks for sharing my video.

[Spectre013]

Thanks!

[komar9111]

the main problem is that players just don't want to learn, Sorc and BW are good kiters and there are some great examples on the server
this is far from the strongest sorc, but he understands what he is doing


Click here to watch on YouTube

Frozenover I think many people also know, and no one in a battle against him will say that forty is a bad escaper

Comparing kiting in 1v1 to kiting in ranked is just silly. I can go into great detail why that is the case, but I think it should be self-evident to anyone who has done both.

Also, what tools does Sorc have to be called a "great kiting class"?
- Arctic Blast -> 2 Sec cast time makes it unusable when being chased
- Grip of Fear -> Your tanks will shout at you if you give enemies punt immunity for a root that can be broken in an instant by all melee classes in the game.

That's it.

The other tools Sorc has are Flee + AP pot (available to every class in the game) and M2 Focused Mind (available to every ranged class in the game).

I mean honestly, what are you basing such a statement on? And thanks for sharing my video.

I am making this statement, because I'm probably not the last player, at the moment I play on WH, but many people know me by my sco shaman
I can’t talk about the rating because I’m 0 in it, but I know everything about the solo game
you have an detaunt that will allow you to survive burst damage
Grip of Fear is needed in order to minimize the distance and use flee, even if he uses flee he will lose 2-3 sec, this will be enough to prevent the enemy from reaching you.
you talk about Arctic Blast all the time, but for some reason you forget about frostebite, disarm for 3 seconds gives you the opportunity to use any ability, including Arctic Blast, and you can break the distance again.
of course all this does not work if you are running full dps, but gank solo is not about that ...
frozenover best solo sorc, he knows how to do this ****

[Caduceus]

I am making this statement, because I'm probably not the last player, at the moment I play on WH, but many people know me by my sco shaman
I can’t talk about the rating because I’m 0 in it, but I know everything about the solo game
you have an detaunt that will allow you to survive burst damage
Grip of Fear is needed in order to minimize the distance and use flee, even if he uses flee he will lose 2-3 sec, this will be enough to prevent the enemy from reaching you.
you talk about Arctic Blast all the time, but for some reason you forget about frostebite, disarm for 3 seconds gives you the opportunity to use any ability, including Arctic Blast, and you can break the distance again.
of course all this does not work if you are running full dps, but gank solo is not about that ...
frozenover best solo sorc, he knows how to do this ****

I think everyone in this thread, including me, is talking about competitive modes of play like Ranked 6v6 and city warbands. The devs don't consider solo play for balance changes.

Even so, Sorc/BW clearly does not compare to other classes when it comes to kiting. Shaman is a great kiting class, with Run Away! and puddle. SW is a great kiting class with 65ft snare and selfpunt, etc.

Literally every ranged class gets some ranged crowd control and is better at kiting than Sorc/BW. We can argue about whether that is balanced against their burst potential, but saying they are great kiting classes is just nonsense.

[komar9111]

I am making this statement, because I'm probably not the last player, at the moment I play on WH, but many people know me by my sco shaman
I can’t talk about the rating because I’m 0 in it, but I know everything about the solo game
you have an detaunt that will allow you to survive burst damage
Grip of Fear is needed in order to minimize the distance and use flee, even if he uses flee he will lose 2-3 sec, this will be enough to prevent the enemy from reaching you.
you talk about Arctic Blast all the time, but for some reason you forget about frostebite, disarm for 3 seconds gives you the opportunity to use any ability, including Arctic Blast, and you can break the distance again.
of course all this does not work if you are running full dps, but gank solo is not about that ...
frozenover best solo sorc, he knows how to do this ****

I think everyone in this thread, including me, is talking about competitive modes of play like Ranked 6v6 and city warbands. The devs don't consider solo play for balance changes.

Even so, Sorc/BW clearly does not compare to other classes when it comes to kiting. Shaman is a great kiting class, with Run Away! and puddle. SW is a great kiting class with 65ft snare and selfpunt, etc.

Literally every ranged class gets some ranged crowd control and is better at kiting than Sorc/BW. We can argue about whether that is balanced against their burst potential, but saying they are great kiting classes is just nonsense.

you are absolutely right, but instead of the kite's abilities, sorc / bw has huge damage, which is able to break the enemy for one gkd, if this is supplemented with some kind of escape, that would be too much ...

[facundo7777]

From my pov (sorc only). Removing backlash DMG for example till 50 power and reducing cast time(DMG too if needee) of Arctic blast to 1sec or to 1,5 and usable while moving could be a good start

[Grasthard]

the main problem is SW.

doing more dmg than any single target DPS class AND AoE class (up to a certain point)

all while having the highest mobility. the class went from being a support dps (like the rSH) to be the main dps, mandatory spot in any organized WB

[wonshot]

I heard wargrimnir use an arguement when one of the twitch streamers were talking about bw & sorc, and that nothing has changed for these classes for over a year so why would they suddenly be this "drasticly" changed into a worse situation.

I think that situation has arrived because of gear and gear tiers.
lets start with how a caster is building his gear. We have been able to reach 1050 int since Vanq era roughly. And getting around 220-250 bonus dmg from our gear. While our BW & Sorc comboes are timestamps and backloaded burst this means we have to fit enough dmg into our timestamp window, or if we dont our timestamp is simply just us spending 7 seconds unloading but if the result not leathal we have our abilities on cooldown and no kill-pressure.

Gearing since the vanq era has not really done anything to help the timestamp playstyle. Other classes have gotten acces to more wounds set bonuses, some might have gotten a higher setbonus ammount of wounds on their sets, and this is directly working against or timestamp. or some classes might even run with 2xwounds bonus these days.
So while we are trying to maintaince our same bonusdmg from the vanq era, we are fighting against more durable targets.

Our resist debuff options are still the same, but higher tier gear have higher values of resist levels.
Getting acces to bloodlord weapon was the first real caster boost, and a massive one for us with our mechanic and timestamps! But other classes have this options aswel, so not putting us ahead on this one.
Sove set was a boost to all careers. But after playing other classes and with/against them id honestly say that Sove just pushed all careers forward.
While other classes have gotten a boost on their higher tiers of weaponery casters dont benefit from weapon DPS but other damagedealers do, so they have caught up to our advantage of us dealing only damage and not providing utility or having mobility.

With higher gear tiers the physical damage dealers have gotten more overall stat points to spend on their mainstat+secondary offensive stat Weaponskill. Meaning they will do more damage, have more flexability in build path where as us casters are still fighting the same soft capped 1050 int vs slightly higher resist values with no increase in debuffing resists further since Vanq gear.

Basicly the picture im trying to paint here. Is that while BW and Sorc have not been changed, the gearing has changed with later sets. Making the other damage dealing careers catch up to the raw advantage of the casters who are hardstuck in getting 1050 int, and then what? Stack crit? Well we clearly saw the implimentation of Trivial Blows was attempted to directly counter our only buildpath, because the devs deem our builds to be too strong, what whats to take away from that implimentaiton. As TB will directly be a nerf to sorc/bw more than any other critstacking career.

So no. We have no been changed or nerfed for a long time. But the rest of the damagedealers have caught up in damage output, and for casters being careers who rely on simply having more dmg than others at the cost of low mobility, low cc options, low mobility, this internal comparison is just not true anymore. As our damage advantage is almost caught up, by classes who bring more versatile toolkits

[Bozzax]

"I heard wargrimnir use an arguement when one of the twitch streamers were talking about bw & sorc, and that nothing has changed for these classes for over a year so why would they suddenly be this "drasticly" changed into a worse situation"

BW/SORC are same but
- WH/we given ranged snare and LOS break/charge 7s that builds burst (WE also got a mini pounce)
- Engi/magus disrupt turrets and increased range
- SW/SH have been buffed significantly and pounce in melee spec, BHA being instant is awful design since they have kept full util, SH rkd ...
- WL pet speed inc to be greater then players speed, WL damage buffed (big buff followed by a bit of tuning down)
- FS/TB added back
- AM/SHMY giving better kite heals (SHMY nerfed as well)
- Slayer (extremely good) and to some extent CHP perform well bc of all the added WS /penetration on gear (was way less in AOR)

AOE game
- BW/SORC are secondary picks to MDPS for 24v24 due to gear creep/TB/FS

Ranked
- Well check leaderboards after season 2, I feel highly confident def sov gear procs and speed procs explains why we have 2 SORCs above 1k all other are free renown more or less. (so much for "gear shouldn't fix problems of classes")

6v6
- CCM did a 1/3/2 setup that was cool part from that not much

Roam 6man
- Ok but well any DPS (even rdps) works for assisting a mdps and killing soloers

Sniping KBs from others (when below 10%)
- Here is where the class currently do ok

Solo
- A pain in the a... tbh unless you have the gear procs of def sov that enables a bit of kite (tm "gear shouldn't fix problems of classes" )

[Spectre013]

1:38:07 on Q&A video concernign sorc/BW
they clearly stated that nothing is gonna change for classes. This topic is irrelevant to them despite the very good suggestion I read from you all guys