Where does a Black Ork fit in now??

[Duukar]

It was a rethoric question. You ask why people think they should be compensated for the nerf and I suggested it is because tha buff was originally made because BO was deemed lacking utility. Either the team was dead wrong at the time and BO did not need utility or it was right and then BO is yet again in a state where it needs utility. Alot of players then and now probably is of the latter opinion.

The team making changes in the past that get changed in the now doesn't make them dead wrong. It means we've come back around to evaluate something, determined there was need for a changes, and found a different solution. That's an awfully deterministic take for a rhetorical question isn't it?

What different solution? You just took the tactic away. That's not a different solution. That's a step backwards.

The fun part is that the ability was overperforming so you buffed it with a nice AOE interrupt and handed it to Sword Masters. Doesn't that part speak to the punitive nature of the nerf? Do you guys actually hate BO players? It feels that way and your comments make things worse. Your cavalier attitude towards the PEOPLE behind the forum posts and the characters in the game has hurt us and you fail to address our issues or even admit we might have a valid point. Even order mains agree for the most part, Mirror the ability to SM and remove Chop Fastah from Choppahs and give them some form of ID.. Simple elegant solution.

As a BO main this part really hurts, if it was overperforming on a BO in a diminished state how can you pass it to the SM, improve the ability, and expect anything different? You took the problem, made it worse, and moved it to the mirror. Now they will over perform.

In all honesty I haven't logged in to do anything but tweak my build and talisman to try and make this feel ok.. I haven't even had the heart to take it out for a spin.. Its a struggle to find a work around that makes sense. So far its just the same spec but a lot worse.

Imagine making a change that causes this much upheaval from your small, dedicated community and just soldiering forward as if you can do no wrong.

The irony of pleading with someone to show some understanding knowing this post will likely get you banned...

[Haskr]

I find it interesting that the point always is: Chosen and Kotbs are such strong Tanks, so the other Tanks can barely compete and need something to elevate them to their level. At that point im asking myself: Maybe the other Tanks are not too bad, but Chosen and Kotbs are too good, so they might need a tone down. Iirc Torquemadra was planning a revamp of the Chosen/Kotbs mechanic before he left to not let it stay in that boring "switch your 3 auras on bro" state of play, maybe that should be picked up again. Not to say that Bo misses/needs some utility, as that might be the case.

The second point is that argument of warband space, small scale, ranked place that some people make. I was writing in the patch notes topic that whatever tank you play in this game, as long as you can hold a shield, you WILL get a place in any content that you wish to do (ok 2h for ranked matches), and thats just because there arent enough Chosen/Kotbs/(SM on Order) to fill the warband roster. Last City after patch I was watching Gravords stream and he tried to get 4 SM for warband (to test new changes I guess), he could only get 3, because there was just no 4th SM available it seems.

I if they toned down the knights damage any more they would start healing targets they hit.

Its not just about damage, is it? Its about a whole career mechanic in my opnion. Nobody takes a kotbs/chosen in a city warband because of their "damage"

[Charon]

It was a rethoric question. You ask why people think they should be compensated for the nerf and I suggested it is because tha buff was originally made because BO was deemed lacking utility. Either the team was dead wrong at the time and BO did not need utility or it was right and then BO is yet again in a state where it needs utility. Alot of players then and now probably is of the latter opinion.

The team making changes in the past that get changed in the now doesn't make them dead wrong. It means we've come back around to evaluate something, determined there was need for a changes, and found a different solution. That's an awfully deterministic take for a rhetorical question isn't it?

What different solution? You just took the tactic away. That's not a different solution. That's a step backwards.

The fun part is that the ability was overperforming so you buffed it with a nice AOE interrupt and handed it to Sword Masters. Doesn't that part speak to the punitive nature of the nerf? Do you guys actually hate BO players? It feels that way and your comments make things worse. Your cavalier attitude towards the PEOPLE behind the forum posts and the characters in the game has hurt us and you fail to address our issues or even admit we might have a valid point. Even order mains agree for the most part, Mirror the ability to SM and remove Chop Fastah from Choppahs and give them some form of ID.. Simple elegant solution.

As a BO main this part really hurts, if it was overperforming on a BO in a diminished state how can you pass it to the SM, improve the ability, and expect anything different? You took the problem, made it worse, and moved it to the mirror. Now they will over perform.

In all honesty I haven't logged in to do anything but tweak my build and talisman to try and make this feel ok.. I haven't even had the heart to take it out for a spin.. Its a struggle to find a work around that makes sense. So far its just the same spec but a lot worse.

Imagine making a change that causes this much upheaval from your small, dedicated community and just soldiering forward as if you can do no wrong.

The irony of pleading with someone to show some understanding knowing this post will likely get you banned...

- Mate stop exaggerating pls - BO with CRD was over performing. Every one knows that. So if you build your all game experience on the such char ask yourself was it worth that, was it fair ?

In first place BO got CRD as a trade of, couple of years ago, as a part of general tank redesign and currently he should not have it still. BG got Crimson Death vs Knight DT was nerfed and OS moved to defend-able skill (i dont want count other Knight nerfs or should I). Chosen lost old Coruptive power (i dont remember old tc name but it was Raking Talons on steroids). SM lost stack-able resist debuff (the only one on order) and absorb from Phantom blade, got RT ( its not over-performing tc by any means especially when BO has Saving me Hide for free ). BO got You wot but thk was locked to 2h and Big Bravlin nerfed. In sum Destro ends in plus as a conter to order BW morale drop meta which was op as fu..those days. But gues what CP was back (a bit diferent but still) and there is not morale drop meta any more so the balance move in destro favour even further. So now if old THK or BB move to old version all should be fine.
SM - issue
I personally would leave old sm ww version how it was considering BO lost CDR. But i guess improving it its a attempt to make SM more appealing to players. Its last played tank in the game who knows why . If current version will be over-performing it always can be reverse. But i personally doubt that because
1. There is no enough sm-s to realy use it.
2. Additional aoe interrupt every 20 sek does not increase sm performance much if there is no very specific situations (however having ww on demand is nice and allow sm-s play a bit more predictably). Lets wait and see.

BTw if i would ask dev team to do something special for destro tanks - especialy snb i would rather point towards snb BG not BO

[Atropik]

Its last played tank in the game who knows why .

Cause he is a weird looking elf, thats why. xd And BLACK ORC and greenskins in general are the most adorable thing the entire gamedev industry has ever produced/

[Charon]

Its last played tank in the game who knows why .

Cause he is a weird looking elf, thats why. xd And BLACK ORC and greenskins in general are the most adorable thing the entire gamedev industry has ever produced/

I know that very well;PP Imagine trying to push stack of order dwarfs fan boys to lev up elf Sisyphus work - months of raging. I had that in SMASH and now all over again in new guild;)

[wargrimnir]

- Mate stop exaggerating pls - BO with CRD was over performing. Every one knows that. So if you build your all game experience on the such char ask yourself was it worth that, was it fair ?

In first place BO got CRD as a trade of, couple of years ago, as a part of general tank redesign and currently he should not have it still. BG got Crimson Death vs Knight DT was nerfed and OS moved to defend-able skill (i dont want count other Knight nerfs or should I). Chosen lost old Coruptive power (i dont remember old tc name but it was Raking Talons on steroids). SM lost stack-able resist debuff (the only one on order) and absorb from Phantom blade, got RT ( its not over-performing tc by any means especially when BO has Saving me Hide for free ). BO got You wot but thk was locked to 2h and Big Bravlin nerfed. In sum Destro ends in plus as a conter to order BW morale drop meta which was op as fu..those days. But gues what CP was back (a bit diferent but still) and there is not morale drop meta any more so the balance move in destro favour even further. So now if old THK or BB move to old version all should be fine.
SM - issue
I personally would leave old sm ww version how it was considering BO lost CDR. But i guess improving it its a attempt to make SM more appealing to players. Its last played tank in the game who knows why . If current version will be over-performing it always can be reverse. But i personally doubt that because
1. There is no enough sm-s to realy use it.
2. Additional aoe interrupt every 20 sek does not increase sm performance much if there is no very specific situations (however having ww on demand is nice and allow sm-s play a bit more predictably). Lets wait and see.

BTw if i would ask dev team to do something special for destro tanks - especialy snb i would rather point towards snb BG not BO

Keep in mind, some of the people playing have only been here since 2020 and have little notion of what the game has been like for the past decade. For them CDR was the most important thing BO has ever had with no perspective on how they worked before. Part of this is because they were trained that CDR spec was the only viable reason their class would be accepted into group settings.

We do have plans for Chosen/KoBS, and I suspect no matter how carefully we adjust it, there's going to be this same situation in a couple months when we implement it. But that's the only way balance happens.

[ufthakk]

Is it that hard to admit that the changes on cdr could have been implement in a better way ? Having cdr on a tank is superior then have it on a dps.
Stacking choosen and choppa is the way to go now for destro.

[Duukar]

Is it that hard to admit that the changes on cdr could have been implement in a better way ? Having cdr on a tank is superior then have it on a dps.
Stacking choosen and choppa is the way to go now for destro.

You are asking them to admit they may have been wrong? Come on...

His post above tells you that this situation where BOs are least desirable tank to play, in terms of enjoyment and utility, will last until they bring the nerf hammer down on Chosen and KOTBS.. Im just very puzzled by how balance is achieved by stripping one mirror and buffing the other heavily makes any sense for balance.

I play both.. The SM is WAY more fun and impactful at the moment by a very substantial margin. Snare break every 15 seconds (thanks on demand CDR) and Wings of Heaven make mobility a dream. The group shield in FAR worse gear blocks 300( I have no idea why) more dmg on the SM on a 5 sec CD (thanks again on demand CDR). Then on top of that all the dmg reduction AOE interrupts and snares and self buffs and stat steal.. A useful single target punt too? lol i dunno Im only RR55 and no points to spare for it..

I still play the Blork.. at the moment he just feels like a lumbering meat shield swinging his axe around for nerfed dmg.. Using a 4 sec 20% magic reduction between WAHHHGGSS that apparently isnt even working.....

[Duukar]

Is it that hard to admit that the changes on cdr could have been implement in a better way ? Having cdr on a tank is superior then have it on a dps.
Stacking choosen and choppa is the way to go now for destro.

I also wonder at the logic of nerfing tanks in general. Aren't tanks and heals in short supply with DPS overflow happening everywhere? Are they trying to remove the 2/2/2 meta by starving us of tanks and heals?


I guess we will just have to be patient to see where this year long shot at balance takes us..

[Duukar]

- Mate stop exaggerating pls - BO with CRD was over performing. Every one knows that. So if you build your all game experience on the such char ask yourself was it worth that, was it fair ?

In first place BO got CRD as a trade of, couple of years ago, as a part of general tank redesign and currently he should not have it still. BG got Crimson Death vs Knight DT was nerfed and OS moved to defend-able skill (i dont want count other Knight nerfs or should I). Chosen lost old Coruptive power (i dont remember old tc name but it was Raking Talons on steroids). SM lost stack-able resist debuff (the only one on order) and absorb from Phantom blade, got RT ( its not over-performing tc by any means especially when BO has Saving me Hide for free ). BO got You wot but thk was locked to 2h and Big Bravlin nerfed. In sum Destro ends in plus as a conter to order BW morale drop meta which was op as fu..those days. But gues what CP was back (a bit diferent but still) and there is not morale drop meta any more so the balance move in destro favour even further. So now if old THK or BB move to old version all should be fine.
SM - issue
I personally would leave old sm ww version how it was considering BO lost CDR. But i guess improving it its a attempt to make SM more appealing to players. Its last played tank in the game who knows why . If current version will be over-performing it always can be reverse. But i personally doubt that because
1. There is no enough sm-s to realy use it.
2. Additional aoe interrupt every 20 sek does not increase sm performance much if there is no very specific situations (however having ww on demand is nice and allow sm-s play a bit more predictably). Lets wait and see.

BTw if i would ask dev team to do something special for destro tanks - especialy snb i would rather point towards snb BG not BO

Keep in mind, some of the people playing have only been here since 2020 and have little notion of what the game has been like for the past decade. For them CDR was the most important thing BO has ever had with no perspective on how they worked before. Part of this is because they were trained that CDR spec was the only viable reason their class would be accepted into group settings.

We do have plans for Chosen/KoBS, and I suspect no matter how carefully we adjust it, there's going to be this same situation in a couple months when we implement it. But that's the only way balance happens.

You are right. I joined in May 2020. The only life on Blork I know is with CDR. Yes bringing it has been a requirement of every WB ive ever played in unless being 2H for ST party or just having fun and messing around.. Every Single One.

I have educated myself on the topic, however, enough to know that prior to the addition of CDR Big Brawling was a 40% snare and THC was available to SnB users.. Both substantial buffs to the kit which are now missing.

A spammable 40% snare is HUGE utility in WB play and being able to use THC to help finish off a target is very attractive in small man and potentially ST group play..

I can't wait to see how you nerf Chosen and KOTBS. Are you planning on having any tanks left? or are you anticipating the 2/2/2 meta will die after nerfing healers and tanks? I mean that is what you are implying with your post here? please help me if i am mistaken.

You increase the damage DoK and Wp take substantially, while not wrong, giving more weight to DPS. Then you nerf tanks giving more weight to DPS. Do you expect more people to play heals and tanks or less after your attempts at balance are done? Playing as tank and heals for most players is a sacrifice done for the greater good. Some masochists truly enjoy it. You keep reducing the impact tanks have and making healers fall over fast how much longer til dedicated tanks like myself roll DPS and say why bother?

Like it or not I represent two very important cross sections of your player base. Dedicated tanks and players new as of 2020. I play both SM and BO.. BO to bis 1h and 2h. Maybe you should make me an RC????