Better population balance.

[billyk]

It's easy.

1. Destro classes are stronger
2. People like winning and dislike losing

That's it. And since devs will always buff Destro, this won't change.
If looks were important, there would be no gobbos and no DoKs.

[M0rw47h]

It's easy.

1. Destro classes are stronger
2. People like winning and dislike losing

That's it. And since devs will always buff Destro, this won't change.
If looks were important, there would be no gobbos and no DoKs.

Is DoK stronger than WP?
Is Sorc stronger than BW?
Is Chosen stronger than Knight?
Is Choppa stronger than Slayer?

Because those are most core classes on both realms.

[emiliorv]

It's easy.

1. Destro classes are stronger
2. People like winning and dislike losing

That's it. And since devs will always buff Destro, this won't change.
If looks were important, there would be no gobbos and no DoKs.

Is DoK stronger than WP?
Is Sorc stronger than BW?
Is Chosen stronger than Knight?
Is Choppa stronger than Slayer?

Because those are most core classes on both realms.

ahha that guy....another fake account for sure lmao

[emiliorv]

also order has a slight disadvantage at healers,

Are you joking?? ...i will quote about this:

I don't see this Order raw heal/damage vs Destro morale superiority argument as one that we can reasonably balance or even identify on a detailed level effectively. Seems more like a very wide blanket argument that does little to provide actual avenues for possible change.

Spoiler:

I'll avoid the damage one as there aren't many obvious "fix this one thing" areas outside of Slayer's Rampage, but the healing one is far more obvious.

The first of two advantages is the WP healing advantage via Exalted Defenses. It's trivial to proc (defend against an attack) and provides an exta 20% healing. WPs are constantly top of the heal charts and this tactic is one of the big reasons why they are often overstacked by order. The class already provides incredible healing numbers without the tactic (see the DOK) and this just pushes it to silly levels.

The second advantage is the Knight's Now's Our Chance which adds in an extra 15% healing. Both NOC and ED are tactics so they stack together and give rise to the much talked about "35% order healing advantage" (might be slightly higher depending on how/where they are combined).

This is partially countered by the Chosen's -25% heal aura but as this is an ability it won't stack with heal debuff abilities, so when you go to heal debuff someone you're just replacing a -25% with a standard -50% which still gives order an overall advantage in healing.

If I were a dev I'd be targeting the healing difference between the two sides, especially in light of the morale changes. The only counter I know of to the superior healing was applying so much damage in one hit that it couldn't be healed through (i.e. morale drops) and even that had its counters if the drop was telegraphed (mainly punting and Rampaging Siphon) Now that's almost impossible I don't know what the counter-balance is for this healing advantage.

Spoiler:

Regarding damage I'm sure people might bring up BW vs Sorc. Sorc seems to be doing better in cities than BW at the moment but BW seems to do better in ORVR. I don't know enough about the specific damage differences to comment on this one.


edit: as for the SW changes, my only comment is a general request to stop making things undefendable as it takes away all counter play. Undefendable spammable ranged heal debuff? Undefendable Festering Arrow? Really?

Lets break it down ...

Higher heal crits
+10% (outgoing) heal crits from Ironbreaker Ancestors Fury ( a tad clunky and provided you slot a capable IB over a SM )
+ 5% (outgoing) heal crits from Knight of the Blazing Sun
-------------------------------------
+7,5% heals (on average)

Also
- More procs on Warrior Priest absorb Divine Warding (secondary effect less incoming crits)
- Better uptime on Runepriest Blessing of GRungni

Stronger heals in AOE clash
+20% outgoing heals from Warrior Priests Exalted Defences
+15% incoming heals from Knight of the Blazing Sun Focused mending
-------------------------------------
+38% more heals (when it matters)

Warrior Priest 1.38 (ED + FM) x 1.075 (DT + AF)
+48% (When stars align)

Quicker casts for Runepriest group heals
+11% heals per second from Runepriest Master Rune of Speed for the Runie
------------------------------------

Runepriest 1.15 (FM) x 1.11 (MRoS) x 1.025 (DT)
+31%

[gandresch]

A reason also in my opinion is that unique abilities/playstyles went to both realms. For example WL. If you loved the game play (mobility and burst) of the class you had to play Order. Now with MSH you can have the same game play, even better, on Destro. If both realms have the same abilities and everything get copied people will definitely play either on Destro.

[malmar]

Revert changes to keep respawning. Let defenders spawn inside keep if inner is not tagged. There was always a big fight on keep sieges because people could get inside and respawn.
Now, only if there are defenders already inside, camping for defence.

[inoeth]

yes always good to just pick half a sentence.....
read my full post again maybe you get behind what i mean

[Sulorie]

yes always good to just pick half a sentence.....
read my full post again maybe you get behind what i mean

You die as AM because you are out of position and getting zero support in a pug warband, not because you picked AM. Shaman has a lot nice tactics but you can't slot them all, usually you drop one of those you mentioned, if not both.

[fabrizio3k]

1. Destro has better looking Important Classes. Order's important classes (slayer, white lion, kotbs, all healers) generally look dumb by comparison, so Order players pick the cool looking classes like engi, SW, WH, which are also the worst ones

This so much. the balance has changed a lot in the past 13 years, the only thing staying the same being the overall look and appeal of the classes. And here we are with tanks in night gowns and naked dwarfs not being the most appealing choice for your average player without a certain knowledge of wh lore, and all other issues snowballing from that.

I remember the beta in which IB could do whatever it wanted and still few people picked one (slayer wasnt even implemented at the time so dwarf lovers were even more limited in choices)

[emiliorv]

yes always good to just pick half a sentence.....
read my full post again maybe you get behind what i mean

You die as AM because you are out of position and getting zero support in a pug warband, not because you picked AM. Shaman has a lot nice tactics but you can't slot them all, usually you drop one of those you mentioned, if not both.

Always that stupids mantras....shamans played poorly in random pugs are free rps too...you can waste 2 tactic slots and increase your survability?? yes, youwill last 1 more hit...maybe 2, but you wont survive a assist train => free rps....once the ST MA noticed you are free rps he will kill you FOREVER.