Cooldown decreasing abilities - let's bring the balance

[Kabuco]

If chopp fasta (and other CDecreasers) are getting looked at, will order CD Increasers (including morale) get moved/removed/mirrored for balance's sake?

Asking for a friend

pls, list all CD IN- and DEcreasers for both factions

thank you in advance

[Gurf]

Spoiler:

If chopp fasta (and other CDecreasers) are getting looked at, will order CD Increasers (including morale) get moved/removed/mirrored for balance's sake?

Asking for a friend

What specifically do you mean? The main aoe increasers Shattered limbs is mirrored to SH exactly, I would argue that it is easier for SH to apply as they have a pounce and escape

Morale increasers/decreasers is a completely different discussion, which you could make in a different thread as I don't see how it is related?

I mean order morale game that counters destro CDecrease one (destro don't have that btw). Related since you use one to fight the other I guess?

Order morale game? Destro classes have the majority of morale increasers, not sure what you are talking about

[NSKaneda]

Tested in scs&orvr, works and stops destro melee ball, just one of the possible setups.

AM Blinding Light (+debuffs, slow downs, aoe ap drain, the whole package). You can combine it with snares (skill and morale), IB furious reprisal, engie dazzling flash + turret spam and add To Victory! or shatter limbs (depending on situation) on top of it, WH, KOTBS & AM morale pumps'n'drains and overall order m2 coordinated bomb drop.

There's a reason why order has offensive m2 setup while destro m2 is focused on surviving in melee ball.

[teiloh]

Tested in scs&orvr, works and stops destro melee ball, just one of the possible setups.

AM Blinding Light (+debuffs, slow downs, aoe ap drain, the whole package). You can combine it with snares (skill and morale), IB furious reprisal, engie dazzling flash + turret spam and add To Victory! or shatter limbs (depending on situation) on top of it, WH, KOTBS & AM morale pumps'n'drains and overall order m2 coordinated bomb drop.

There's a reason why order has offensive m2 setup while destro m2 is focused on surviving in melee ball.

That's a lot hinging on a 5 second Morale with a 20 AOE radius. Lets not try to keep playing this game of bullet-point balance, or lets talk about the WE M3 that adds 50% crit, and managed to escape all the crit nerfs.

[NSKaneda]

Spoiler:

Tested in scs&orvr, works and stops destro melee ball, just one of the possible setups.

AM Blinding Light (+debuffs, slow downs, aoe ap drain, the whole package). You can combine it with snares (skill and morale), IB furious reprisal, engie dazzling flash + turret spam and add To Victory! or shatter limbs (depending on situation) on top of it, WH, KOTBS & AM morale pumps'n'drains and overall order m2 coordinated bomb drop.

There's a reason why order has offensive m2 setup while destro m2 is focused on surviving in melee ball.

That's a lot hinging on a 5 second Morale with a 20 AOE radius. Lets not try to keep playing this game of bullet-point balance, or lets talk about the WE M3 that adds 50% crit, and managed to escape all the crit nerfs.

Why do you think order m3 is focused on absorbing and reducing dmg?

[teiloh]

pls, list all CD IN- and DEcreasers for both factions

thank you in advance

Destro:

CD Increasers
Black Orc - Not in Da Face - Single Target, 10/20s uptime, Da Toughest x9
Choppa - Tired Already? - Single Target, 10/20s uptime, Da Hitta' x9
Squig Herder - Bad Gas! - 40 Frontal on High Mobility Class, 10/20s uptime, Bouncin x9

CD Reducer
Black Orc - Mor Choppin' Dem - No Target Required, 10/20s uptime, Da Boss x13 and x11 Tactic
Choppa - Chop Fasta! - No Target Required, 20/40s uptime, Da Wrecka x9


Order:

CD Increasers
IB - Shield of Reprisal - Single Target, Requires Shield, Requires Defense, 5/10s uptime, Path of Stone x3 Tactic
Slayer - Shatter Limbs - 30 Foot Point-blank, 10/20s uptime, Skavenslayer x9

CD Reducer
SM - Whispering Winds - Target Required, Hit Required, Melee Range Required, Gives Immunity, 10/20s uptime, Path of Hoeth x13

[teiloh]

Why do you think order m3 is focused on absorbing and reducing dmg?

What viable Order M3 damage reducers are there that Destro doesn't already have? The only one (Gromril Plating) that Order had got nerfed and mirrored. You mean the WH parry morale, which adds very little to survivability to those that need it?

[NSKaneda]

Spoiler:

Why do you think order m3 is focused on absorbing and reducing dmg?

What viable Order M3 damage reducers are there that Destro doesn't already have? The only one (Gromril Plating) that Order had got nerfed and mirrored. You mean the WH parry morale, which adds very little to survivability to those that need it?

I agree that Gromril plating should never have been nerfed, removing group utility from this morale is a serious blow to order morale game.
Most of m3s are root and brake or fast recovery on both sides but order has few m3s that are good at instakilling focused targets (again, something that is not mirrored to des who focus more on recovery and AP management at this stage). Slayer m3 + WH witchfinder's protection + engie Cannon Smash + SM Bladeshield in dedicated ST focus party.

8 times out of 10 it's gonna be brake and recover situation but there are options if your side has the advantage of winning m2 stage.


All of the above should come into play after using normal skillset ofc.

[teiloh]

I agree that Gromril's plating should never have been nerfed, removing group utility from this morale is a serious blow to order morale game.
Most of m3s are root and brake or fast recovery on both sides but order has few m3s that are good at instakilling focused targets (again, something that is not mirrored to des who focus more on recovery and AP management at this stage). Slayer m3 + WH witchfinder's protection + engie Cannon Smash + SM Bladeshield in dedicated ST focus party.

8 times out of 10 it's gonna be brake and recover situation but there are options if your side has the advantage of winning m2 stage.


All of the above should come into play after using normal skillset ofc.

It's rare that those Morales you listed will be better than a Distracting Bellows and Order has next to no Morale builders while Destro has 4-5 additional viable ones. Likewise Bladeshield is not really a defensive morale, the Slayer version works on one target, and Cannon Smash debuffs less armor than Zealot M1 Tzeentch's Talon does. It also doesn't debuff resists like the Zealot M1, but of course it lasts twice the time and does some damage (which is not that significant vs a Stage 3 champ)

If you want to insta kill people Talon + any kind of focus especially Squig M1 with Frenzy will do the trick, and since both have exceptional morale builders with possible Shammy support they will get to M1 almost instantly.

[Spellbound]

Tested in scs&orvr, works and stops destro melee ball, just one of the possible setups.

AM Blinding Light (+debuffs, slow downs, aoe ap drain, the whole package). You can combine it with snares (skill and morale), IB furious reprisal, engie dazzling flash + turret spam and add To Victory! or shatter limbs (depending on situation) on top of it, WH, KOTBS & AM morale pumps'n'drains and overall order m2 coordinated bomb drop.

There's a reason why order has offensive m2 setup while destro m2 is focused on surviving in melee ball.

Paper PvP desperate attempt.

So run a city warband focused on AM, engy, slayer, WH, IB) and all coordinated in cohesion while they Destro just have to ball up mSH, Choppa, Mara, Chosen, BO morale dump, etc which a random pug can do and mash a few buttons, why you get 3-13 Destro wins.

Yes “heavily” coordinated Order WB will beat a organized destro WB or more skilled. However if player skill are par on both sides or pug vs pug, the city scores speak for themselves. It’s just easier to ball without talent rather than do everything you listed. Maybe one or two warbands will do what you listed in coordination and yes they’ll win. Need to factor in casuals as well from both sides and having balanced fights. A simple melee ball shouldn’t require rocket science PvP.