Patch Notes 27/11/2020

[Naelar]

Not sure if this has been asked yet, but will the SOR numbers be displayed in forts. If a fort has full pop on both sides, there will be no AAO shown, but the numbers will be uneven? If not, will the AAO be changed to reflect the natural disparity between attackers and defenders?

[XsorrowerX]

Instead we now have another attempt at a "mid-range" ranged spec which historically don't work because 65ft range is an awkward range: too short to participate in sieges (attacking or defending), too short to kite anything with a speed buff in its pocket, puts you in Pounce/Squig Leap range which is pretty much instant death, etc. A kite spec that doesn't have the range to kite. There's a reason why the "65ft" specs come with range buffs...

We can definitely think about reducing squig leap and pounce range if it’s the main issue you encounter

Hi Grunbag,

I would like to touch the smaller mSH changes this patch brought, there were not many comments about it.

You got rid of 2 abilities. In cities and roaming wb comp ppl have to use ABM for the aoe dmg output.
Even before with territorial this form had only a few abilities to use and it is really sad to see it dumbed down further.
I did not have an issue to use an ability (means you have to get to someone, include it in the rotation and hit), and check if it is up instead of have it granted.
I dont like the easy mode dumbed down play and just spamming aoe mindlessly in a blob.

And I am more upset on removing the melee interrupt. Let me describe it because I dont know how much were you playing in this spec.
It was kinda a mini game for me when I was jumping on the backline to annoy healers with this ability. It had a long cd so you could not pop every moment, you had to be close and pick one healer (or a bw channeling), watch and know from the animation if they are building up something. So it needed attention and some skill to use it effectively, and for example after an Indigestion a well placed interrupt could mean something. But you had to work for it and not just blindly smashing buttons.
I like that for indigestion too, it is a really strong skill but you have to aim it, after a jump you have to consider how many healers you can apply it and do the positioning. So you need attention to use it to its full potential. I would be really angry if you would buff it to a simple aoe around the squig.

It would be good to get that interrupt back on the mSH(now you have a ranged interrupt with half cd btw) and revert or replace sneaky strike with something. I dont want imba easy mode dmg, just something that is worth to put in the rotation, something with utility, a debuff (dont have to be strong and with big dmg but something that at least worth to include in the rotation) and if it comes with some timing/positioning requirement the better.

I hope Wargrimnir agrees as well that abilities increasing the skill ceiling are more welcome in the future changes too.

PS.: I can absolutely get over on a leap/pounce reduce to 50ft but add some minor dmg like a 100 for dismount. And pls give back some mSH abilities first because the spec is stripped right now.

The general direction from the changes that I'm getting is that they want you to switch in and out of squig armor to make the class more dynamic. Hence why they removed aoe from ranged, so you have to pop in and out to do any at all, same with interrupt and the shorter range for quick shootin'. They want you to stance change when needed, not stay in form. That's why they lowered the cooldown on it also.

[Oglaf]

We can definitely think about reducing squig leap and pounce range if it’s the main issue you encounter

Hi Grunbag,

I would like to touch the smaller mSH changes this patch brought, there were not many comments about it.

You got rid of 2 abilities. In cities and roaming wb comp ppl have to use ABM for the aoe dmg output.
Even before with territorial this form had only a few abilities to use and it is really sad to see it dumbed down further.
I did not have an issue to use an ability (means you have to get to someone, include it in the rotation and hit), and check if it is up instead of have it granted.
I dont like the easy mode dumbed down play and just spamming aoe mindlessly in a blob.

And I am more upset on removing the melee interrupt. Let me describe it because I dont know how much were you playing in this spec.
It was kinda a mini game for me when I was jumping on the backline to annoy healers with this ability. It had a long cd so you could not pop every moment, you had to be close and pick one healer (or a bw channeling), watch and know from the animation if they are building up something. So it needed attention and some skill to use it effectively, and for example after an Indigestion a well placed interrupt could mean something. But you had to work for it and not just blindly smashing buttons.
I like that for indigestion too, it is a really strong skill but you have to aim it, after a jump you have to consider how many healers you can apply it and do the positioning. So you need attention to use it to its full potential. I would be really angry if you would buff it to a simple aoe around the squig.

It would be good to get that interrupt back on the mSH(now you have a ranged interrupt with half cd btw) and revert or replace sneaky strike with something. I dont want imba easy mode dmg, just something that is worth to put in the rotation, something with utility, a debuff (dont have to be strong and with big dmg but something that at least worth to include in the rotation) and if it comes with some timing/positioning requirement the better.

I hope Wargrimnir agrees as well that abilities increasing the skill ceiling are more welcome in the future changes too.

PS.: I can absolutely get over on a leap/pounce reduce to 50ft but add some minor dmg like a 100 for dismount. And pls give back some mSH abilities first because the spec is stripped right now.

The general direction from the changes that I'm getting is that they want you to switch in and out of squig armor to make the class more dynamic. Hence why they removed aoe from ranged, so you have to pop in and out to do any at all, same with interrupt and the shorter range for quick shootin'. They want you to stance change when needed, not stay in form. That's why they lowered the cooldown on it also.

Which probably wouldn't work because you spec into either melee or range, no?

[Grunbag]

We can definitely think about reducing squig leap and pounce range if it’s the main issue you encounter

Hi Grunbag,

I would like to touch the smaller mSH changes this patch brought, there were not many comments about it.

You got rid of 2 abilities. In cities and roaming wb comp ppl have to use ABM for the aoe dmg output.
Even before with territorial this form had only a few abilities to use and it is really sad to see it dumbed down further.
I did not have an issue to use an ability (means you have to get to someone, include it in the rotation and hit), and check if it is up instead of have it granted.
I dont like the easy mode dumbed down play and just spamming aoe mindlessly in a blob.

And I am more upset on removing the melee interrupt. Let me describe it because I dont know how much were you playing in this spec.
It was kinda a mini game for me when I was jumping on the backline to annoy healers with this ability. It had a long cd so you could not pop every moment, you had to be close and pick one healer (or a bw channeling), watch and know from the animation if they are building up something. So it needed attention and some skill to use it effectively, and for example after an Indigestion a well placed interrupt could mean something. But you had to work for it and not just blindly smashing buttons.
I like that for indigestion too, it is a really strong skill but you have to aim it, after a jump you have to consider how many healers you can apply it and do the positioning. So you need attention to use it to its full potential. I would be really angry if you would buff it to a simple aoe around the squig.

It would be good to get that interrupt back on the mSH(now you have a ranged interrupt with half cd btw) and revert or replace sneaky strike with something. I dont want imba easy mode dmg, just something that is worth to put in the rotation, something with utility, a debuff (dont have to be strong and with big dmg but something that at least worth to include in the rotation) and if it comes with some timing/positioning requirement the better.

I hope Wargrimnir agrees as well that abilities increasing the skill ceiling are more welcome in the future changes too.

PS.: I can absolutely get over on a leap/pounce reduce to 50ft but add some minor dmg like a 100 for dismount. And pls give back some mSH abilities first because the spec is stripped right now.

The general direction from the changes that I'm getting is that they want you to switch in and out of squig armor to make the class more dynamic. Hence why they removed aoe from ranged, so you have to pop in and out to do any at all, same with interrupt and the shorter range for quick shootin'. They want you to stance change when needed, not stay in form. That's why they lowered the cooldown on it also.

Exactly . We wanted you to be able to play in and out more easily , and the armor buff being unremovable . We also wanted to make pet more viable with new abilties (armor debuff) , dealing more damage and being healed if they are near you.

[XsorrowerX]

Hi Grunbag,

I would like to touch the smaller mSH changes this patch brought, there were not many comments about it.

You got rid of 2 abilities. In cities and roaming wb comp ppl have to use ABM for the aoe dmg output.
Even before with territorial this form had only a few abilities to use and it is really sad to see it dumbed down further.
I did not have an issue to use an ability (means you have to get to someone, include it in the rotation and hit), and check if it is up instead of have it granted.
I dont like the easy mode dumbed down play and just spamming aoe mindlessly in a blob.

And I am more upset on removing the melee interrupt. Let me describe it because I dont know how much were you playing in this spec.
It was kinda a mini game for me when I was jumping on the backline to annoy healers with this ability. It had a long cd so you could not pop every moment, you had to be close and pick one healer (or a bw channeling), watch and know from the animation if they are building up something. So it needed attention and some skill to use it effectively, and for example after an Indigestion a well placed interrupt could mean something. But you had to work for it and not just blindly smashing buttons.
I like that for indigestion too, it is a really strong skill but you have to aim it, after a jump you have to consider how many healers you can apply it and do the positioning. So you need attention to use it to its full potential. I would be really angry if you would buff it to a simple aoe around the squig.

It would be good to get that interrupt back on the mSH(now you have a ranged interrupt with half cd btw) and revert or replace sneaky strike with something. I dont want imba easy mode dmg, just something that is worth to put in the rotation, something with utility, a debuff (dont have to be strong and with big dmg but something that at least worth to include in the rotation) and if it comes with some timing/positioning requirement the better.

I hope Wargrimnir agrees as well that abilities increasing the skill ceiling are more welcome in the future changes too.

PS.: I can absolutely get over on a leap/pounce reduce to 50ft but add some minor dmg like a 100 for dismount. And pls give back some mSH abilities first because the spec is stripped right now.

The general direction from the changes that I'm getting is that they want you to switch in and out of squig armor to make the class more dynamic. Hence why they removed aoe from ranged, so you have to pop in and out to do any at all, same with interrupt and the shorter range for quick shootin'. They want you to stance change when needed, not stay in form. That's why they lowered the cooldown on it also.

Which probably wouldn't work because you spec into either melee or range, no?

It will work, just be less effective. You specialize in one or the other still. I'm not saying it's the best idea, but it seems to be the direction they want to go.

[Grunbag]

Hi Grunbag,

I would like to touch the smaller mSH changes this patch brought, there were not many comments about it.

You got rid of 2 abilities. In cities and roaming wb comp ppl have to use ABM for the aoe dmg output.
Even before with territorial this form had only a few abilities to use and it is really sad to see it dumbed down further.
I did not have an issue to use an ability (means you have to get to someone, include it in the rotation and hit), and check if it is up instead of have it granted.
I dont like the easy mode dumbed down play and just spamming aoe mindlessly in a blob.

And I am more upset on removing the melee interrupt. Let me describe it because I dont know how much were you playing in this spec.
It was kinda a mini game for me when I was jumping on the backline to annoy healers with this ability. It had a long cd so you could not pop every moment, you had to be close and pick one healer (or a bw channeling), watch and know from the animation if they are building up something. So it needed attention and some skill to use it effectively, and for example after an Indigestion a well placed interrupt could mean something. But you had to work for it and not just blindly smashing buttons.
I like that for indigestion too, it is a really strong skill but you have to aim it, after a jump you have to consider how many healers you can apply it and do the positioning. So you need attention to use it to its full potential. I would be really angry if you would buff it to a simple aoe around the squig.

It would be good to get that interrupt back on the mSH(now you have a ranged interrupt with half cd btw) and revert or replace sneaky strike with something. I dont want imba easy mode dmg, just something that is worth to put in the rotation, something with utility, a debuff (dont have to be strong and with big dmg but something that at least worth to include in the rotation) and if it comes with some timing/positioning requirement the better.

I hope Wargrimnir agrees as well that abilities increasing the skill ceiling are more welcome in the future changes too.

PS.: I can absolutely get over on a leap/pounce reduce to 50ft but add some minor dmg like a 100 for dismount. And pls give back some mSH abilities first because the spec is stripped right now.

The general direction from the changes that I'm getting is that they want you to switch in and out of squig armor to make the class more dynamic. Hence why they removed aoe from ranged, so you have to pop in and out to do any at all, same with interrupt and the shorter range for quick shootin'. They want you to stance change when needed, not stay in form. That's why they lowered the cooldown on it also.

Which probably wouldn't work because you spec into either melee or range, no?

With stat exchange in squig armor it’s possible to have an hybrid spec

[Oglaf]

The general direction from the changes that I'm getting is that they want you to switch in and out of squig armor to make the class more dynamic. Hence why they removed aoe from ranged, so you have to pop in and out to do any at all, same with interrupt and the shorter range for quick shootin'. They want you to stance change when needed, not stay in form. That's why they lowered the cooldown on it also.

Which probably wouldn't work because you spec into either melee or range, no?

With stat exchange in squig armor it’s possible to have an hybrid spec

Stats are one thing, but without investment in the melee tree you won't have skills.

Honestly, allowing players to properly play either ranged or melee seems better than forcing them to hybrid.

You really should reconsider disallowing AoE in the ranged trees. Turning Shootin' Thru Ya into a morale is one of the least popular changes you made, tbh.

[Grunbag]

Which probably wouldn't work because you spec into either melee or range, no?

With stat exchange in squig armor it’s possible to have an hybrid spec

Stats are one thing, but without investment in the melee tree you won't have skills.

Honestly, allowing players to properly play either ranged or melee seems better than forcing them to hybrid.

You really should reconsider disallowing AoE in the ranged trees. Turning Shootin' Thru Ya into a morale is one of the least popular changes you made, tbh.

That’s not something we would reconsider anytime soon . Their aoe spec is melee tree

[Oglaf]

With stat exchange in squig armor it’s possible to have an hybrid spec

Stats are one thing, but without investment in the melee tree you won't have skills.

Honestly, allowing players to properly play either ranged or melee seems better than forcing them to hybrid.

You really should reconsider disallowing AoE in the ranged trees. Turning Shootin' Thru Ya into a morale is one of the least popular changes you made, tbh.

That’s not something we would reconsider anytime soon . Their aoe spec is melee tree

Why? If I may be frank, why? Giving SH (and Destro in general) more AoE RDPS "omphf" has been one of the most sought-after changes and what most players wanted out of the rSH rework/buff.

That's why the removal of AoE rubbed everyone the wrong way and, frankly, pissed a lot of players off with these changes and further cemented the notion that the dev team doesn't really know/care about Destruction's needs.

[Charon]

Sorry for interrupting (sh is not my cup of tea so i will not stay long here) but .. i think most of the long time rsh players need to accept that they cannot have all - more dmg, more utilities, more range and more mobility (and survivability after switching to msh). This path is implementing some risk - rewards mechanism to the class that was dominated by players that "don't like dying" and "i like play alone and gank order pug". Don't be wary, as a part of 6 man, you can obliterate any order char quicker (so Teefz should not have any problems with last changes). In fact small scale roaming for order squishy classes like dps am is strongly questionable now . You don't have even implemented mechanism "i need SM with ww to be really effective" like sw. So why do you complain. And if you really like classes with op long range roll magus.