[KOTBS] Myrmidia's Fury.

[CptGeorges]

Hi guys it me again continuing with the idea of trying to make 2h kotbs more viable other than being a debuff bot.

So to avoid the whole topic again, I will quickly point some things out before moving to the meat of my argument:

1. The new tactic, while nice, seems like it was more of a sudden placeholder that doesn't really address most of the issues that knights have. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy detaunt immunity, but this does not warrant the investment or viability of the 2h. I'll get more into it in the meat.

2. Runefang WS is a nice change, we got something, so that's great. But then we also lost vigilance, so the argument that 2h kotbs is supposed to be a tanky debuffer punter just got a lot harder now that its gone, and runefang doesnt give initiative which means more defensive investments.

In summary, I like the initiative to change but honestly the big problem is still not addressed - there are no viable reasons to play 2h as reflected by tactics and abilities other than pressing one button. So let's try and adress this one thing at a time and I want to start with myrmidia's fury as a potential candidate. So here's a little overview of the channel abilities of all the tanks:

DESTRO:

Blackguard:
Enraged beating - 6 point investment
Enraged beating does PHYSICAL damage and is 25 ap/sec channel, and crits increase hatred. Now I don't need to tell you that HATRED and maintaining HATRED is how you do everything with the BO, opening out more damaging and defensive abilities. So how do you increase crit? Well there is renown. There's also tactics - Filled with fury, Thirst for Death is useful for a cycle. There are things you can do to improve this but this is merely a short overview. All in all I would say pretty solid, intervenes with the damage tree nicely.

Black Orc:
Three hit combo - 10 point investment
This is a PHYSICAL damage ability that costs no AP but requires the best plan!!!, which is the class mechanic revolving around rotating attacks. It does have 8 second cooldown which means you cant spam it anyway, just like the blackguard one. So what's good about this one? Other than requiring no AP, you can invest into YOU WOT for extra burst and survivability, we got the tactics - Guud at Big Choppin, Gork Smash! for extra crit etc, there are many ways to buff this so again this is merely an overview

Chosen
Relentless - 10 point investment
So this is an easy one. Feels like a regular channel until you get the appropriate tactics (OPRESSING BLOW), and it retains it's spirit damage DESPITE THE OH SO PAINFUL spirit damage tactic removal. Other than that it's completely the same as the others, 25 ap/sec and 8 second cooldown. I think you might be starting to get where I'm going with this.

ORDER:
Ironbreaker:
Grudgeborn fury - 14 point investment
20 ap/sec, the more grudge you have the higher the crit. Pretty self explanatory, combined with the 2h tactic and the crit tactuc that you get as a core one it is a solid choice for pressure.

Swordmaster:
Ether dance - 14 point investment
Swordmaster is a slightly trickier one because it does SPIRIT damage as well as having a PLETHORA of 2h tactics and tactics that increase critical chance. Nobody would dare argue that swordmaster 2h damage is weak, most people have seen what they an do, and ether dance supplements this damage nicely.

Knight of the blazing sun:
Myrmidia's Fury - 10 point investment
So this is the point of contention. Myrmidia's fury.... it just seems underwhelming. Physical damage, 8 second cooldown, 25 ap/sec, no synergy with anything other than maybe arcing swing which is really an expensive group debuff. No 2h tactic on direct damage increase, no crit damage increase or direct crit chance increase, nothing to make this a legitimate pick over precision strike spam (which is extremely AP expensive). Now this used to be at least a somewhat sensical pick with MIGHTY SOUL that was unfortunately removed, even though mighty soul itself was never the best tactic, but it was something. Soooo... what gives? What's the point of this skill? Nobody runs myrmidia's fury. It feels like a waste of GCD.

So I heard the philosophy behind the knight is GROUP FOCUSED and DEFENSIVE. So if you outright refuse to increase the knight's damaging capabilities for some reason, which I am sorry but it certainly seems that way, then why can't you at least make MYRMIDIA'S FURY more group focused and defensive? In the state that it is now it is worthless.

PERSONALLY I would prefer 2h tactics that would increase performance overall (crit, or damage, or elemental damage, or higher parry), but since this is clearly not the way it's going to be, then perhaps would you consider making the ability better in some other way? Give it some defensive or group buff abilities? This ability doesn't seem to have a place in any knight's rotation anymore, now that we have to rely on weaponskill more now than ever. Please understand that THIS is ONE of MANY reasons why knights, and in particular two handed knights feel like they're left behind and still no apparent reason as to why. And I am looking forward to people just eager to jump on this thread and beat a dead dog for their own pleasure.

Thank you for your patience.

EDIT: Making it Elemental damage would perhaps make it worth taking again

feel free to make any suggestions to the devs in the appropriate thread :
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=42144

[Sponn]

2h knight feels like it is missing a few things, that is for sure.

With how the stat allocation is for Knight you're gonna be hurting in one place or another stat wise. You need as close to str cap for the strikethrough on your arcing swing/over powered swing since, realistically, that is the only reason why you are 2h and why you are there.


I like the idea of giving 2h knight just like, something to fill the gap. If we are meant to be a tanky 2h, awesome. Just give me some strikethrough straight up in the stats on offensive sovereign sets and lower the strength on them or something to maybe solidify the 2h tank role.

[Tonkatruk]

I agree the 2H Knight needs some kind of polish, just to avoid them feeling like the poor cousin to the other 2h Tank careers. OP does have a point - if 2h Knights are painted into a corner and intended/supposed to be Group Focussed and defensive, then give surely the great weapon abilities/tactics should reflect that more than they currently are

[junkxjunk]

Maybe the problem is that arcing swing+tactic+staggering impact+AOE snare is a bit too good.

[Cadien]

Maybe the problem is that arcing swing+tactic+staggering impact+AOE snare is a bit too good.

It's good, but then again a lot of the other tanks have similar, though not identical, levels of utility in their 2h spec.

Regardless, the point is that Myrmidia's Fury is useless. The channel 2h ability of the other tanks has value, as noted by the OP. They may not be perfect, but they have something. MF has nothing. It's a waste of AP. The opportunity cost of casting it is too great. Precision Strike, a baseline skill available to all Knights, is just better. Also, while channeling, you're unable to bring whatever other utility (e.g., staggering impact, shining blade...hell, even blazing blade applications would be better).

That being said, it doesn't seem like the route the developers want to go with knight is to put out more damage. While the Chosen seems to be a damaging debuffer, the knight seems like a defensive buffer - or, at least that's the fantasy and class identity that the developers have for it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, either. Whether your value is through damage, or debuffing, or buffing, or w/e, as long as you bring value then it's good.

That's why the notion of attaching utility to MF instead of a straight up damage buff is more intriguing. Of course, as the above poster noted, the 2h knight already brings utility. And good utility at that. So, if some sort of utility was engrafted onto the ability it couldn't be too powerful. I don't want to get into numbers, because those can be tweaked and often become the focus of the argument instead of the concept, but some ideas could be that while channeling:

the knight buffs his parry, or,
the knight channels an absorb shield on himself, or,
the knight increases a defensive stat on himself (e.g., toughness), or,
the knight buffs himself with a buff that reduces AP cost for a set period of time.

These are just some ideas and, like I said, the numbers would need to be tuned. But it does seem off that what should be the marquee ability of a 2h spec is fairly useless.

[kmark101]

Knight is the class of procs when coming to damage, this was the original idea by the devs as well, hence Runefang.

What if Precision Strike would place a 25% armor piercing effect proc on the knight for the next 10s? Then if both this AND Runefang procs, you could do respectable damage for a few seconds, including Myrmidia's Fury channel.

I would think along this line, it's not always additional utilities that people want, sometimes it's just pure damage. Every class should have some damage potential under the right circumstances (in the case of the knight when procs lined up).

[CptGeorges]

I was thinking like MAKE IT 5 AP/SEC but your ideas are way better guys

[mytreds]

Knight is the class of procs when coming to damage, this was the original idea by the devs as well, hence Runefang.

What if Precision Strike would place a 25% armor piercing effect proc on the knight for the next 10s? Then if both this AND Runefang procs, you could do respectable damage for a few seconds, including Myrmidia's Fury channel.

I would think along this line, it's not always additional utilities that people want, sometimes it's just pure damage. Every class should have some damage potential under the right circumstances (in the case of the knight when procs lined up).

Precision strike needs to be mirrored with the chosens cleave, not the black guards murderous wrath.

[normanis]

or make new ability '' emperor '', u increase all defenses by 15% deal 10% more damage and increase armor by 30%,

[Bozzax]

Why would you play any other order tank if you add more damage to knight?

(2h + Snb kniggit meta inc)