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WH and WE (Discussion)

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Rapzel
Posts: 452

Re: WH and WE (Discussion)

Post#81 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:57 pm

What is this thread even? Buff WE damage?
It's literally the highest ST melee you get on Destro (and it outshines most Order ST DPS), it preforms excellent in small scale and in solo, and it's probably the best career destro has access too atm when it comes to small scale/6vs6/scs.
Let's just do a small check of the highest potential damage a WE can output, AW 1500 crit, 500 from WB with tactic, ~250 from kiss, ~100 from weapon procc, 150 from ToT, 150 from CoC, 2500+ in one hit given you "procc" everything, and if we remove the proccs and take the guaranteed damage you'd reach above 2150 dmg on a SINGLE AW crit, WE is literally a melee sorc with AP drain.
It's like saying "buff slayer, they need more AoE."

WH will do fine in small scale given that Slayer gets tuned down because Slayer is just overperforming (who thought their ST and AoE build should be the same build would be a good idea?) and there's no reason to bring anything else but 2x Slayer for 6vs6 on Order, they're just that much better than everything else.
There's sadly only a few very talented WH players, but they really do make the career look like a very strong 6vs6/small scale career.

Do I think WE and WH needs buffs in WB? No, they have a roll in WB, they run well in the ST group and do great harassing healers and casters given a little bit of support.

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Hardkoar
Suspended
Posts: 242

Re: WH and WE (Discussion)

Post#82 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:19 pm

Rapzel wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:57 pm What is this thread even? Buff WE damage?
It's literally the highest ST melee you get on Destro (and it outshines most Order ST DPS), it preforms excellent in small scale and in solo, and it's probably the best career destro has access too atm when it comes to small scale/6vs6/scs.
Let's just do a small check of the highest potential damage a WE can output, AW 1500 crit, 500 from WB with tactic, ~250 from kiss, ~100 from weapon procc, 150 from ToT, 150 from CoC, 2500+ in one hit given you "procc" everything, and if we remove the proccs and take the guaranteed damage you'd reach above 2150 dmg on a SINGLE AW crit, WE is literally a melee sorc with AP drain.
It's like saying "buff slayer, they need more AoE."

WH will do fine in small scale given that Slayer gets tuned down because Slayer is just overperforming (who thought their ST and AoE build should be the same build would be a good idea?) and there's no reason to bring anything else but 2x Slayer for 6vs6 on Order, they're just that much better than everything else.
There's sadly only a few very talented WH players, but they really do make the career look like a very strong 6vs6/small scale career.

Do I think WE and WH needs buffs in WB? No, they have a roll in WB, they run well in the ST group and do great harassing healers and casters given a little bit of support.
You forgot to #Signed - Archmage.

Rapzel
Posts: 452

Re: WH and WE (Discussion)

Post#83 » Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:22 pm

Hardkoar wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:19 pm
Rapzel wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:57 pm What is this thread even? Buff WE damage?
It's literally the highest ST melee you get on Destro (and it outshines most Order ST DPS), it preforms excellent in small scale and in solo, and it's probably the best career destro has access too atm when it comes to small scale/6vs6/scs.
Let's just do a small check of the highest potential damage a WE can output, AW 1500 crit, 500 from WB with tactic, ~250 from kiss, ~100 from weapon procc, 150 from ToT, 150 from CoC, 2500+ in one hit given you "procc" everything, and if we remove the proccs and take the guaranteed damage you'd reach above 2150 dmg on a SINGLE AW crit, WE is literally a melee sorc with AP drain.
It's like saying "buff slayer, they need more AoE."

WH will do fine in small scale given that Slayer gets tuned down because Slayer is just overperforming (who thought their ST and AoE build should be the same build would be a good idea?) and there's no reason to bring anything else but 2x Slayer for 6vs6 on Order, they're just that much better than everything else.
There's sadly only a few very talented WH players, but they really do make the career look like a very strong 6vs6/small scale career.

Do I think WE and WH needs buffs in WB? No, they have a roll in WB, they run well in the ST group and do great harassing healers and casters given a little bit of support.
You forgot to #Signed - Archmage.
I don't play either Archmage or Shaman. I do play WE though and the career has been "more than strong" since Torque got a big brain idea.

Edit; Clarification of big brain idea = Elixir of Shadows, WE/WH didn't have a 50% sprint or instant stealth until about 2 years ago (give or take a couple of months can't remember). It was too strong back then, now that people have 2 gear sets up of gear (vanq/beastlord was bis back then) it just shows that it was a poor way of dealing with a gear dependent career getting buffs before higher tier gear was implemented.
Giving them a sprint that was a min cd and a instant stealth and keep them as two separate CDs would've been the more rational and logical option.

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Manatikik
Posts: 1249

Re: WH and WE (Discussion)

Post#84 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:22 am

Rapzel wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:22 pm
Hardkoar wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:19 pm
Rapzel wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:57 pm What is this thread even? Buff WE damage?
It's literally the highest ST melee you get on Destro (and it outshines most Order ST DPS), it preforms excellent in small scale and in solo, and it's probably the best career destro has access too atm when it comes to small scale/6vs6/scs.
Let's just do a small check of the highest potential damage a WE can output, AW 1500 crit, 500 from WB with tactic, ~250 from kiss, ~100 from weapon procc, 150 from ToT, 150 from CoC, 2500+ in one hit given you "procc" everything, and if we remove the proccs and take the guaranteed damage you'd reach above 2150 dmg on a SINGLE AW crit, WE is literally a melee sorc with AP drain.
It's like saying "buff slayer, they need more AoE."

WH will do fine in small scale given that Slayer gets tuned down because Slayer is just overperforming (who thought their ST and AoE build should be the same build would be a good idea?) and there's no reason to bring anything else but 2x Slayer for 6vs6 on Order, they're just that much better than everything else.
There's sadly only a few very talented WH players, but they really do make the career look like a very strong 6vs6/small scale career.

Do I think WE and WH needs buffs in WB? No, they have a roll in WB, they run well in the ST group and do great harassing healers and casters given a little bit of support.
You forgot to #Signed - Archmage.
I don't play either Archmage or Shaman. I do play WE though and the career has been "more than strong" since Torque got a big brain idea.

Edit; Clarification of big brain idea = Elixir of Shadows, WE/WH didn't have a 50% sprint or instant stealth until about 2 years ago (give or take a couple of months can't remember). It was too strong back then, now that people have 2 gear sets up of gear (vanq/beastlord was bis back then) it just shows that it was a poor way of dealing with a gear dependent career getting buffs before higher tier gear was implemented.
Giving them a sprint that was a min cd and a instant stealth and keep them as two separate CDs would've been the more rational and logical option.

The restealth is fine. Wh/we are way more fluid to play now. I’m honestly pretty okay with where the WE is rn (though I haven’t fought phalanx or LoB with Mara/WE since TB buffs) but I think they need to make bullets scale with combo points and mirror ToB (or something equally as good offensively). The bigger issue balance wise for small scale is destro has much better synergy between more classes whereas order only has three comps: double slayer, triple pounce, and WH/WL (we kinda had sw/slayer working for awhile but it’s obviously inferior to either triple pounce or double slayer).

Also when the hell did you get a WE?
<Montague><Capulet>

Rapzel
Posts: 452

Re: WH and WE (Discussion)

Post#85 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 10:18 am

Manatikik wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:22 am
Rapzel wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:22 pm
Hardkoar wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 9:19 pm

You forgot to #Signed - Archmage.
I don't play either Archmage or Shaman. I do play WE though and the career has been "more than strong" since Torque got a big brain idea.

Edit; Clarification of big brain idea = Elixir of Shadows, WE/WH didn't have a 50% sprint or instant stealth until about 2 years ago (give or take a couple of months can't remember). It was too strong back then, now that people have 2 gear sets up of gear (vanq/beastlord was bis back then) it just shows that it was a poor way of dealing with a gear dependent career getting buffs before higher tier gear was implemented.
Giving them a sprint that was a min cd and a instant stealth and keep them as two separate CDs would've been the more rational and logical option.

The restealth is fine. Wh/we are way more fluid to play now. I’m honestly pretty okay with where the WE is rn (though I haven’t fought phalanx or LoB with Mara/WE since TB buffs) but I think they need to make bullets scale with combo points and mirror ToB (or something equally as good offensively). The bigger issue balance wise for small scale is destro has much better synergy between more classes whereas order only has three comps: double slayer, triple pounce, and WH/WL (we kinda had sw/slayer working for awhile but it’s obviously inferior to either triple pounce or double slayer).

Also when the hell did you get a WE?
I think WH is in a decent spot tbh, but Slayer is just overperforming, there's no reason to bring anything else on Order except for the fact that "it's more fun to play other careers", the so called KotBS effect.
I think separating the two abilities into two different CDs and two different abilities would make the career feel even more fluent, while also raising the skill cap, WE/WH's weakness was that it lacked a charge, they got a charge and it added a vanish as well that you can't spec away from. Separating them would also make it possible for more builds that include e.g. armor penetration elixir/oil

I've had one for at least a year, we've just had a stable WE player taking the WE spot in our 6 mans.

Seravajan
Posts: 160

Re: WH and WE (Discussion)

Post#86 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 12:19 pm

A WH has easier time to kill a sorc than a WE killing a BW. But that is partly because BW has some self defenses with disabilities which the sorc lacks in some degree. But I still think that the WH is the better rounded class of the two.

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inoeth
Suspended
Posts: 513

Re: WH and WE (Discussion)

Post#87 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:23 pm

TBH WH feels like it cant kill anything besides sorcs which dont get any healing.
and as soon as you get into a brawl you are basicly dead instantly and from range there is no real possibility to gain finisher points besides beastlord set which is not really suited for any endgame stuff and also the proc chance is too low to work efficiently.
plz do something

Krima
Posts: 616

Re: WH and WE (Discussion)

Post#88 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:45 pm

Rapzel wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:57 pm What is this thread even? Buff WE damage?
It's literally the highest ST melee you get on Destro (and it outshines most Order ST DPS), it preforms excellent in small scale and in solo, and it's probably the best career destro has access too atm when it comes to small scale/6vs6/scs.
Let's just do a small check of the highest potential damage a WE can output, AW 1500 crit, 500 from WB with tactic, ~250 from kiss, ~100 from weapon procc, 150 from ToT, 150 from CoC, 2500+ in one hit given you "procc" everything, and if we remove the proccs and take the guaranteed damage you'd reach above 2150 dmg on a SINGLE AW crit, WE is literally a melee sorc with AP drain.
It's like saying "buff slayer, they need more AoE."

WH will do fine in small scale given that Slayer gets tuned down because Slayer is just overperforming (who thought their ST and AoE build should be the same build would be a good idea?) and there's no reason to bring anything else but 2x Slayer for 6vs6 on Order, they're just that much better than everything else.
There's sadly only a few very talented WH players, but they really do make the career look like a very strong 6vs6/small scale career.

Do I think WE and WH needs buffs in WB? No, they have a roll in WB, they run well in the ST group and do great harassing healers and casters given a little bit of support.
expectation/reality

AW crits for 1500 if you take Flanking + TOB, IP, BF
witchbrew + tactic = lows 400s. Dont get baited into 500s
Witchbrew without FM = 325 dmg.
Kisses = 195 dmg

Weapon proc? pls thats 5%

You do play WE? because 500 from WB and 250 from kisses its just not true. On dummies, yes.
Krima - WE RR 87
Carnage :ugeek:

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Rumpel
Posts: 359

Re: WH and WE (Discussion)

Post#89 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:48 pm

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=41913#p445040

Was wondering about this because off all that "wh has no dmg" posts.
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Krima
Posts: 616

Re: WH and WE (Discussion)

Post#90 » Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:54 pm

Rumpel wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:48 pm viewtopic.php?f=8&t=41913#p445040

Was wondering about this because off all that "wh has no dmg" posts.
BAL + SOD its insane and WHs still need more dmg?
Krima - WE RR 87
Carnage :ugeek:

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