AoE dmg, cap it like Morale

[lyncher12]

I've run plenty of 12, 18, 24 premade wbs. And you can play clever and dealing with outnumbering, without using aoe spams.
Hell i was with Davjen in Praag, we took on 1 wb and a half by using the surroundings to lure them into a chokepoint. Thats how you deal with "zergs."
Not just by out aoeing them. That sounds very lack of skill if anything.
You strike hard on their weak points, this is where a single target buff could totally work in a smaller groups favor.

Lower aoe dmg, stronger single target could make it much easier for organised warbands or groups to strike said weakpoint, get the healers dead, work towards dps etc.
While trying to keep your own weak point out of harms way.

Oh please, you were aoeing that choke, without aoe that choke you were holding would have pushed through you. Obviously you can't just aoe spam a bigger group whenever since they'll just blob over you. Why don't you go and run a full ST warband and see how it will work out. What are you going to do with stronger ST dmg vs a zerg, you can kill 2-3 people and then what?
It's good to pretend all about good ST focus and all that, but AOE is still king, and lower aoe, you promote zerging.

this is the only good argument from the other side i've read. it instantly turns into a whine fest over order vs destro. this argument is also why aoe shouldn't be nerfed but look at doing something about fort/keep chokepoints instead.
l2p doesn't fix the issue.

[emiliorv]

What is enough slayers, you don't need more than 3. And yes if you ask TUP they will say that order has the easy uperhand. I mean when cities came out and they were order they lost only ONE city all in all, so yeah they were beating everyone and everything.

Then they moved to Destro and beat everyone, see the common denominator here?

quoted from viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39836&p=428656#p428656

my win % is probably slightly higher on order... than it is on destro and my win % on destro is one of the highest not that it matters just proving you wrong about "sides win rate".

Destro been nerfed hard in the last year... was killing destro on order before they was nerfed... sorry to burst bubble about destro being OP. Please try again the real reason why order is slacking in cities.

[Gurf]

What is enough slayers, you don't need more than 3. And yes if you ask TUP they will say that order has the easy uperhand. I mean when cities came out and they were order they lost only ONE city all in all, so yeah they were beating everyone and everything.

Then they moved to Destro and beat everyone, see the common denominator here?

quoted from viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39836&p=428656#p428656

my win % is probably slightly higher on order... than it is on destro and my win % on destro is one of the highest not that it matters just proving you wrong about "sides win rate".

Destro been nerfed hard in the last year... was killing destro on order before they was nerfed... sorry to burst bubble about destro being OP. Please try again the real reason why order is slacking in cities.

"Win rate is slightly higher on Order" - you think that somehow proves that Order has much more powerful aoe?

The issue is quite simple, Destro play mostly melee and in Forts it favours ranged. All the other arguments around this are not going anywhere. You want the devs to nerf Order aoe rather than play the classes which excel in Forts.

And if your Warband is being melted by 3 Slayers that really is a player issue,

[emiliorv]

Spoiler:

Then they moved to Destro and beat everyone, see the common denominator here?

quoted from viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39836&p=428656#p428656

my win % is probably slightly higher on order... than it is on destro and my win % on destro is one of the highest not that it matters just proving you wrong about "sides win rate".

Destro been nerfed hard in the last year... was killing destro on order before they was nerfed... sorry to burst bubble about destro being OP. Please try again the real reason why order is slacking in cities.

The issue is quite simple, Destro play mostly melee and in Forts it favours ranged. All the other arguments around this are not going anywhere. You want the devs to nerf Order aoe rather than play the classes which excel in Forts.

The issue is quite simple, Order play mostly ranged and in Cities it favours melee. All the other arguments around this are not going anywhere. You want the devs to nerf Destro morale rather than play the classes which excel in Cities => the point is destro effectively got nerfed.

[Gurf]

Spoiler:

quoted from viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39836&p=428656#p428656

The issue is quite simple, Destro play mostly melee and in Forts it favours ranged. All the other arguments around this are not going anywhere. You want the devs to nerf Order aoe rather than play the classes which excel in Forts.

The issue is quite simple, Order play mostly ranged and in Cities it favours melee. All the other arguments around this are not going anywhere. You want the devs to nerf Destro morale rather than play the classes which excel in Cities => the point is destro effectively got nerfed.

Previously it didn't matter what classes Order rolled if the deciding factor who won was who got their morale first, as that was always going to be Destro no matter what.

Once the playing field was relatively even Order then had to reroll classes which were useful in City in order to win. A step Destro aren't willing to do to win at Forts, pretty straightforward.

[CeeJay89]

Spoiler:

quoted from viewtopic.php?f=8&t=39836&p=428656#p428656

The issue is quite simple, Destro play mostly melee and in Forts it favours ranged. All the other arguments around this are not going anywhere. You want the devs to nerf Order aoe rather than play the classes which excel in Forts.

The issue is quite simple, Order play mostly ranged and in Cities it favours melee. All the other arguments around this are not going anywhere. You want the devs to nerf Destro morale rather than play the classes which excel in Cities => the point is destro effectively got nerfed.

These are not comparable issues. Order losing cities due to a lack of melee classes that are favored in cities would be a player driven issue. Destro losing forts due to a lack of ranged classes that are favored in forts would be a player driven issue.

Destro having access to astronomically better morale options (preventative and boosting) is not a player driven issue. AoE ability damage and morale damage are also not comparable. AoE damage can be mitigated and avoided. There are no options against morale damage except "get more wounds." The issue should not be Morale vs AoE. It should be Destro AoE vs Order AoE and the options available to them; from raw numbers to utility (ranged AND melee).

[emiliorv]

AoE damage can be mitigated and avoided. There are no options against morale damage except "get more wounds."

There are counters to morale drops, its so easy like spread out...but you cant spread in a funnel..

[hammerhead]

These are not comparable issues. Order losing cities due to a lack of melee classes that are favored in cities would be a player driven issue. Destro losing forts due to a lack of ranged classes that are favored in forts would be a player driven issue.

Destro having access to astronomically better morale options (preventative and boosting) is not a player driven issue. AoE ability damage and morale damage are also not comparable. AoE damage can be mitigated and avoided. There are no options against morale damage except "get more wounds." The issue should not be Morale vs AoE. It should be Destro AoE vs Order AoE and the options available to them; from raw numbers to utility (ranged AND melee).

The fact that the Order is losing the CS due to poor composition is a statement distorted by the difference in population between factions. It is more difficult for a Order to assemble a group, since due to the smaller number and the same deficit for tanks and healers, Desi often falls on those remnants that do not fit in and are quae in small groups or solo. And this is not something that is unique to the Order, here is one of the last cities -

Spoiler:

And that's not really a player's problem. Order likes to play melee classes and plays with them. In the group I was in there were about 3 or 4 IBs. And everyone knows that if you take more than one, then you greatly harm the group. People play in oRVR with effective classes and go to the city only with meta. And the problem here lies that one tank per order and destro replaces 90% of all the needs of the group in all imaginable and inconceivable qualities. Even Bork and SM have very little to offer for the group in comparison. The auras mechanic is the weakest part of the current game. They make one class highly versatile, highly simple, and highly irreplaceable in all aspects of the game.

I am a big opponent of the AOE 24 cap, although I am a Order player. And I am sure that it is the moral play that should do what is now doing an incredibly overestimated AOE. And the game should be balanced around one warband and the oae ​​should only be a stress factor for healers. I would like to believe that when we got access to high-end sets and fix some abilities, the dev team will be able to unleash the potential of this layer of the game. The moral play should serve as a battering ram for pushing in the forts and decide who will emerge as the winner between two identical groups. In the meantime, we must probably be patient.

[Onigokko0101]

I've run plenty of 12, 18, 24 premade wbs. And you can play clever and dealing with outnumbering, without using aoe spams.
Hell i was with Davjen in Praag, we took on 1 wb and a half by using the surroundings to lure them into a chokepoint. Thats how you deal with "zergs."
Not just by out aoeing them. That sounds very lack of skill if anything.
You strike hard on their weak points, this is where a single target buff could totally work in a smaller groups favor.

Lower aoe dmg, stronger single target could make it much easier for organised warbands or groups to strike said weakpoint, get the healers dead, work towards dps etc.
While trying to keep your own weak point out of harms way.

Oh please, you were aoeing that choke, without aoe that choke you were holding would have pushed through you. Obviously you can't just aoe spam a bigger group whenever since they'll just blob over you. Why don't you go and run a full ST warband and see how it will work out. What are you going to do with stronger ST dmg vs a zerg, you can kill 2-3 people and then what?
It's good to pretend all about good ST focus and all that, but AOE is still king, and lower aoe, you promote zerging.

this is the only good argument from the other side i've read. it instantly turns into a whine fest over order vs destro. this argument is also why aoe shouldn't be nerfed but look at doing something about fort/keep chokepoints instead.
l2p doesn't fix the issue.

My Galaxy brain fix for forts is to make the lords room bigger, and add more doors in