[CHOPPA] GTDC replacement

[farng84]

I'm saying that overall Destro generally has the better melee ball already with its classes combined overall, which is reflected in City wins.

Slayer has slightly better Damage, Choppa has better Utility. Things need to be looked at from a wider perspective rather than Slayer does more damage therefore Choppa needs a buff. People in this thread saying Choppas are bad are deluded, they are the most played class on Destro side, played far more than Slayer and there is a reason for that.

Destro may have a better melee ball but GTDC need to be fixed. The ability makes no one happy: Order hates it, Destro tanks hates it, Choppas-who-knows-how-to-play hates it.
So, or you replace GTDC with a pure damage ability or you replace it with a utility ability; in the first case destro train get stronger, in the second case Destro get more utility (and it have quite enough).
Ppl say: "get rid of GTDC because of reason!", but you can't just get rid of 13pt ability and leave the 13pt slot empty, you have to actually replace it with something.
Whiech leads to the point: do you want to replace GTDC with a damage ability or a utility? or both?

P.S. also, Salyer doesn't have "slightly better Damage". It deal 15%-20% more damage than Choppa, let's not fool ourselves.

I would like to highlight 3 points:

1) if the figure of 15-20% more damage is accurate there is a wide gap between the two classes that is not very balanced
2) Is the extra utility you mention is the CD reduction from choppa fasta? SL has shattered limbs to balance. Please mention which extra utility/utilities choppa can offer compared to slayers
3) Saying is ok that SL are superiors to choppa because there are more choppa than slayers is not a valid point. if the same reasoning was applied Magus should be extremely op compared to engineer (few like the floating guy) and sorc should be much stronger than BW (because lord maleficient, really)... People play an archetype that they like and looks cool, choppa looks cooler, but destro have fewer ranged dps compared to order because they don't look as cool. That is no reason to have unbalanced classes (not saying perfect mirrors, talking about balance for classes as they are)

[Orgruk]

i think you should put it on the balanca forum, this would give it more weight.

Thanks a lot for the idea, just did it here.

[hurycanlol]

give an Inevatable Doom to the choppa would be a big mistake, just fix GTDC imo, for exemple remove grab, get back undefendable, and maybe the second tick if it cancel

[farng84]

Agreed,

The flavour of gtdc is good, if you did remove the pull and leave it undefendable it would give 1 undefendable skill to both SL and choppa, and gtdc could be used without any worry

[jvlosky]

Ppl say: "get rid of GTDC because of reason!", but you can't just get rid of 13pt ability and leave the 13pt slot empty, you have to actually replace it with something.
Whiech leads to the point: do you want to replace GTDC with a damage ability or a utility? or both?

P.S. also, Salyer doesn't have "slightly better Damage". It deal 15%-20% more damage than Choppa, let's not fool ourselves.

Imho : we have to trade this damage ability by another dmg ability

I agree with you! Order could have a better melee train but they prefer to play sassy SW/WH instead of cool punk-suicide-angry Dwarf. Choppa is a damage class and should deal damage, not utility!

About your proposal:
1) i think you should put it on the balanca forum, this would give it more weight.
2) i'm not a fan of this kind of mirroring but, truth be told, i'm so tired of GTDc that it would be fine to me to replace it with Deff Bringa
3) Actually i also though about couple of replacement for GTDC:
- An AoE Bleed 'Em Out around choppa: it last x seconds and deals damage to all target around choppa every y seconds, the damage dealt per
tick increase with time.
- An ability like Seed Of Chaos but centered on choppa and dealing AoE damage around him

Your #3, IMO, is a genius idea. Literally could use the same animation as GTDC, would serve a similiar purpose in the damage department that GTDC has, removed the pull but give it more dmg. Is that the general idea you were going for?

I think it is a simple elegant change. But truth be told people are gonna complain both ways, I say keep the speed increase for your #3 from GTDC and make the dmg something to watch out for and call it day? I like it regardless.

[Ysaran]

The big flaws of GTDC is the channelling, to getrid of the channelling would be enough to make GTDC a worthy skill, i dont care about the pull

[BelligerentBob]

If you give Choppas an equivalent to Inevitable Doom all the Order players would quit so just get rid of it.

So if you're going to leave GTDC how it is, move Shattered Limbs to 13 points, and at 9 points have an ability that gives your group increased morale gain in the Skavenslayer path.

Get rid of Keep on Choppin at 5 points and replace it with Rampage.

Everyone, especially healers, are happy this way! If you're not happy its probably because you run Jagged Edge with 60% or more Armor Penetration

[oaliaen]

Hello there,


It's been a while since players were complaining about the Choppa's ability Git To Da Choppa may it be Order or Destruction players.

The idea behind this concept and this new skill, beside getting rid of complains, is to raise us more closer to Slayers and also allow Destruction tanks to be able to do their job without seeing endless immunity on targets.

Spoiler:

Deff Bringa would be placed at the 13th slot of the Path of Da' Wrecka mastery ability tree and fully replace the Git To Da Choppa.


This way Choppas will have a usefull ability, no more immunities on Destruction Tanks' targets and no more random grap Order players are complaining about.



PS : all the credits and thanks to da Kaptin, Grufrip for this concept.

Great ..and imho i dont see any obstacle to accept this idea.

[hurycanlol]

If you give Choppas an equivalent to Inevitable Doom all the Order players would quit so just get rid of it.

So if you're going to leave GTDC how it is, move Shattered Limbs to 13 points, and at 9 points have an ability that gives your group increased morale gain in the Skavenslayer path.

u want to delete ID for slayer ? i dont understand
Honnestly Choppa has very good synergie with mara, just fix GTDC (back to undefendable, and remove the grab)

[TenTonHammer]

I will be a bit pessimistic and say that after all this time and talk I don’t forsee the devs doing anything about choppa’s 2H or AoE tree.

The amusing thing I see here all this placing the concept “faction uniqueness” on a pedestal, hyperbolic statements of how people will leave order in protest if this happens
Ive seen it all before when the talk of mirroring the IB 2H kd on BG though in that conversation I remember people went so far as to say RP as a class will be dead if that change was made to BG.

Turns out nothing of the sort happened.

GTTC is not good for the game, the ability is one of the reasons that very few WB’s want to take magus into city, each side needs only 1 ST and 1 AoE pull.

We need a better alternative to GTTC as well as a better replacement to that awful 5 point PvE exhaustive blow in our savage tree