Ability Rework Progress

[jonathanmurphy3]

Though not equivalent to a Sorcerer 10k rotation, it was still nice to have a BoC crit for 3k+, followed by a SVF 2.5k crit.

[Morf]

Not disagreeing just checking you know they reduced Shatter Confidence / Destroy Confidence range even on live? Not sure they did enough though

Yea i remember and tbh i didnt see much of a difference when this change was made and the tactic to increase enchants removed i dont know of any decent kotbs that can justify slotting the tactic over something else.

[Sulorie]

DPS AMs have 3/4 potent ST DoTs, whereas Magus has BT, WS (and IB if you spec into the 50% crit dmg tactic).
DPS AMs also have a heal debuff. They can also heal.

I know Magus -can- deal good damage. But that is under pretty specific circumstances: a) not having WS dispelled; b) having their 20% dmg buff active from pet; c) not having half of their damage - a la DoTs - cleansed every second.

I have always been a firm believer that, given how long it takes for a Magus - when compared to other RDPS - to set up a good damage rotation, the Magus should put out a shittonne of SERIOUS damage; not fluff damage.

Magus DoTs hiding important debuffs is irrelevant, and the fact that their DoTs would be considered thus, i.e. debuff maskers, is indicative of how poor they actually were.
They can perform well in a 6-man group; but not as good as a Sorc. They don't perform very well in mass RvR (which the game purports itself to focus on), outside of one or two gimmicky utility spells, rendering their role as a 'DPS' null, void, and comical to say the least.

No class should have access to self-heals, much better utility AND similar DPS to a class designated 'DPS' as its archetype.

AM have TWO potent dots, both others are pretty much average.
When you think Magus does fluff damage, then you only encountered AoE specced Magus, called pull bots.
Hiding debuffs is more important than anything else in this game.
Encountering more than one RDPS with dots, good luck cleansing.
Sorc loses much more damage due to successful cleansing.

If you ever played a kiter, you would value DoT's much higher. Maybe you don't even play RDPS at all. At least it sounds like it.



@Bozzax: Drain Magic is vital for DPS AM. It gives 130 AP to the AM, when you consider the casting costs. Now guess why DPS AM need the AP.
I tell you, they have almost no AP regen during their rotation, because it is stopped, when casting a sequence of instant casts aka DoT's. DPS Shamans don't have the problem, because lack of DoT's, while Heal Shaman runs out of AP, when spamming HoT's - 2 per target.

[Tesq]

guys you cannot base the am/SH change on classes that need to be nerf like kobs.

And sh hot must remain ench like dok hot are blessing, atm kobs can remove up to 3 ench (need tactics) and do damage for each ench removed: This is wrong 3 times, as remove ench/bless should have a coldown, remove it x 3 screw the coldown limit; remove and do damage it's just pay 1 for have 2 , 1 hit that just remvoe heal and then do even damage is just like do 2x damage; then remove 3 ench make some healer in few sec out of hot source so basicaly mean not able to kite even if they where correctly prepared for that and go against the player skill leaving him no choice.

The solution to sh ability to heal it's hit directly what prevent him to do that not change all his hot in buff so that they cannot be cleanse thus making sh hot > than other healers hot.
The chance to remove blessing/ench must be better look at.

Also am/sh ap problem are fixed in t4 by sov set bonus, also in game are present things that reduces the ap cost and can be slotted into helm/hands and they are fine with the hybrid nature of sh/am, if their meccanic would work correctly. Thus by a better meccanic ( like my suggestion more point mean : less ap consume, less cast time, more dps/heal value).

These are all things that can be changed server side with zero impact on client.

[Deadpoet]

Going back to my initial suggestion, I really don't have an informed opinion on how good or bad the 1.4.9. changes were. We didnt even have the opportunity to test them in live. Things like friendly pounce and AP drain? ok, cool, but I was more interested in changes in auras which could make BO and SM useful in a party. The thing is, BO and SM were clearly the least preferred tanks by far in group play (I won't get into their worth 1v1). You could read it in the forums, in the imgame chats, you could experience it yourself if you played the class, and generally everybody knew it, Yet the Devs in old WAR never moved a finger for years and when they did it was too late. Azarael said once that if it was possible, in some distant future maybe, it could be nice to improve the original game and maybe fix some of the worst designed features. I think the subpar quality of BO and SM is one of those things WARHAMMER failed to address, I'm not even suggesting that it be considered for now or even the near future. I only wanted to point this out in the hope that some day, if things go well and there is time and opportunity to do it, these issues are looked at. IT's maybe my intuitive fondness for the underdog talking here, but SM was one of my most cherished classes back in the day.

[Sulorie]

Also am/sh ap problem are fixed in t4 by sov set bonus

Only for heal spec and hots do not proc the set bonus.

[Tesq]

Also am/sh ap problem are fixed in t4 by sov set bonus

Only for heal spec and hots do not proc the set bonus.

well it seems easy to fix so if that's the problem. Also hot/dot dont do that for a reason, it would too much efficent that way, also with a meccanic improvement with reduced cast time they should proc more often, if that it's not enough just simply increase proc chance. It's useless see problems where there aren't

[jonathanmurphy3]

DPS AMs have 3/4 potent ST DoTs, whereas Magus has BT, WS (and IB if you spec into the 50% crit dmg tactic).
DPS AMs also have a heal debuff. They can also heal.

I know Magus -can- deal good damage. But that is under pretty specific circumstances: a) not having WS dispelled; b) having their 20% dmg buff active from pet; c) not having half of their damage - a la DoTs - cleansed every second.

I have always been a firm believer that, given how long it takes for a Magus - when compared to other RDPS - to set up a good damage rotation, the Magus should put out a shittonne of SERIOUS damage; not fluff damage.

Magus DoTs hiding important debuffs is irrelevant, and the fact that their DoTs would be considered thus, i.e. debuff maskers, is indicative of how poor they actually were.
They can perform well in a 6-man group; but not as good as a Sorc. They don't perform very well in mass RvR (which the game purports itself to focus on), outside of one or two gimmicky utility spells, rendering their role as a 'DPS' null, void, and comical to say the least.

No class should have access to self-heals, much better utility AND similar DPS to a class designated 'DPS' as its archetype.

AM have TWO potent dots, both others are pretty much average.
When you think Magus does fluff damage, then you only encountered AoE specced Magus, called pull bots.
Hiding debuffs is more important than anything else in this game.
Encountering more than one RDPS with dots, good luck cleansing.
Sorc loses much more damage due to successful cleansing.

If you ever played a kiter, you would value DoT's much higher. Maybe you don't even play RDPS at all. At least it sounds like it.



@Bozzax: Drain Magic is vital for DPS AM. It gives 130 AP to the AM, when you consider the casting costs. Now guess why DPS AM need the AP.
I tell you, they have almost no AP regen during their rotation, because it is stopped, when casting a sequence of instant casts aka DoT's. DPS Shamans don't have the problem, because lack of DoT's, while Heal Shaman runs out of AP, when spamming HoT's - 2 per target.

Umm sorry ,but my main was a Magus (pretty well-known) back on Norn actually.

1) So, by that logic, you're saying that the Magi community should be happy and contempt with their role being that of a debuff masker? Cool.
2) Their single-target damage is good, but if you had bothered to read my comment, you would see that it is situational, and it takes time to set-up (pet buff, WS) if you want to deliver the most optimum amount of damage. Other classes can do that in a heart-beat.
3) Maybe -you- never played competitive RvR, but most groups would have at least 2 cleansebots, resulting in - more often than not - your serious DoTs 50% of the time being cleansed. Given Magus hefty AP costs, that just exacerbated their already-dire predicament.
4) Sorc could still pump out 3-4k doombolts on demand, so it was no way near as bad as it was for the Magus/Engi. How can you even compare the two?!
5) What has kiting got to do with this?

Ill-informed.

[Tesq]

Spoiler:

DPS AMs have 3/4 potent ST DoTs, whereas Magus has BT, WS (and IB if you spec into the 50% crit dmg tactic).
DPS AMs also have a heal debuff. They can also heal.

I know Magus -can- deal good damage. But that is under pretty specific circumstances: a) not having WS dispelled; b) having their 20% dmg buff active from pet; c) not having half of their damage - a la DoTs - cleansed every second.

I have always been a firm believer that, given how long it takes for a Magus - when compared to other RDPS - to set up a good damage rotation, the Magus should put out a shittonne of SERIOUS damage; not fluff damage.

Magus DoTs hiding important debuffs is irrelevant, and the fact that their DoTs would be considered thus, i.e. debuff maskers, is indicative of how poor they actually were.
They can perform well in a 6-man group; but not as good as a Sorc. They don't perform very well in mass RvR (which the game purports itself to focus on), outside of one or two gimmicky utility spells, rendering their role as a 'DPS' null, void, and comical to say the least.

No class should have access to self-heals, much better utility AND similar DPS to a class designated 'DPS' as its archetype.

AM have TWO potent dots, both others are pretty much average.
When you think Magus does fluff damage, then you only encountered AoE specced Magus, called pull bots.
Hiding debuffs is more important than anything else in this game.
Encountering more than one RDPS with dots, good luck cleansing.
Sorc loses much more damage due to successful cleansing.

If you ever played a kiter, you would value DoT's much higher. Maybe you don't even play RDPS at all. At least it sounds like it.



@Bozzax: Drain Magic is vital for DPS AM. It gives 130 AP to the AM, when you consider the casting costs. Now guess why DPS AM need the AP.
I tell you, they have almost no AP regen during their rotation, because it is stopped, when casting a sequence of instant casts aka DoT's. DPS Shamans don't have the problem, because lack of DoT's, while Heal Shaman runs out of AP, when spamming HoT's - 2 per target.

Umm sorry ,but my main was a Magus (pretty well-known) back on Norn actually.

1) So, by that logic, you're saying that the Magi community should be happy and contempt with their role being that of a debuff masker? Cool.
2) Their single-target damage is good, but if you had bothered to read my comment, you would see that it is situational, and it takes time to set-up (pet buff, WS) if you want to deliver the most optimum amount of damage. Other classes can do that in a heart-beat.
3) Maybe -you- never played competitive RvR, but most groups would have at least 2 cleansebots, resulting in - more often than not - your serious DoTs 50% of the time being cleansed. Given Magus hefty AP costs, that just exacerbated their already-dire predicament.
4) Sorc could still pump out 3-4k doombolts on demand, so it was no way near as bad as it was for the Magus/Engi. How can you even compare the two?!
5) What has kiting got to do with this?

Ill-informed.

if we have a magus here, what you think of:
-all ap value cut half
-damage increase of 10-15%
-all dot with no CD ( or propper coldown)
-daemon/turrets summon while moving
-2 type of dot
A) dot that do same ammount of damage over X time
B) increasing exponential damage that last less then type A ( exemple ig type A last 9-10 sec , type B last 5 sec) to add some burst damage.

would this be something good or engi/ magus fix need a different approach?

[jonathanmurphy3]

The damage isn't too bad once you have the pet out. Just the fact that you would always have to re-summon it, or in a fast-paced environment you would barely find an opportune moment to have it out; that DoTs were dispelled too easily; no sort of 'niche' (stagger removal was nice until they **** that up and rendered it useless)