Order lack of melee

[guirssane]

Ironically, in the 16-39 bracket I'm struggling to get wins as Destro. Never have healers, Order generally has 3+ healers, mostly RP's.

5 SC's - 1 win.

Weird yesterday afternoon I lost 6 times in a row as order. No healer

[skylark6216]

Being a new player to RoR,roll Wp and just find if I go frontline will just die in 5sec and I out of AP after casting 5-6 HoT

Then I go play engineer and find BO/Chosen can fight with 2-3 rDPS without healer.

[mubbl]

just wow.
t1 is not representativ for any class in late game, you got 25% to 50% of your skills and most of the time not even the good ones...
this game is not balance for t1...
t1 is a mix out of new players and twinks...
it has an exponantional gear creep in addition...

[LordMarshal]

T1 is the new people's introduction to the game. The fact that the game was designed so that you didn't have any of your good skills and was not balanced should be a good indicator as to one of the reasons the game failed.

[wargrimnir]

just wow.
t1 is not representativ for any class in late game, you got 25% to 50% of your skills and most of the time not even the good ones...
this game is not balance for t1...
t1 is a mix out of new players and twinks...
it has an exponantional gear creep in addition...

Gear scaling is pretty flat in mid-tiers until you start hitting some breakpoints at RR45/60/71 where it actually flattens out quite a bit compared to live. Differences mainly being more sets for diversity and build options with lots of different procs and jewelry that wasn't on live. We're only going to get more stuff in the 50+ range over the next couple of years. Lots of sets and builds should be competitive when its all done without having a single top tier set.

[Glorian]

Order Rdps can just easier played casually. Be it Legolas, BW, Engi.

Trying to push into advancing destro with your Warband is a fruitless task. All the rdps are in full backpedal mode once you hit the reds.

Ofc we play heavy engis in SCs and Rvr. If you get 2 rdps together you can get a destro healer or dps down. A bad healer even on a glascannon engi if the Melee train has missed you.

Engi in a City against healers who know their stuff is useless. I put 500ap in damage on an unguarded Azzeyune and he never got below 95% health.

So yes. Order rdps is fun for casually jumping into rvr or SCs. If you put more thought into it and class knowledge you can be a fixxer or thorbolt. Kiting High Dps.

But for any kind of order Melee focus you need friends or guildies and a plan in an SC.
From my point of view this isn't the case on destro as soon as you have 1 BO, 1choppa the direction is forward in the SC. If you see 5 different guild tags in nordland it seems natural for them to go full Melee train.

Just my point of view.

[cattlebruiser]

A lot of it comes down to perception I think. For example, the model of an Ironbreaker is visually smaller than a Black Orc, so even if you have 5 Ironbreakers, 3 Black Orcs are equal in size if not larger leading you to think you're being vastly outnumbered in open RvR even if you aren't.

[Vlad333]

I made a tank, SM, just to try to see how tanking feels.
It is the same fricking situation. Loss after loss after loss. All evening lost every SC.
You people seriously believe this is normal? or that it is my fault? season pvper in WoW (2100 rating ) or even oldies like Shadowbane. I do not want to seem arrogant at all, but that is out of the question.
This plague is affecting Order hard. I never get healed as tank. Never.
Also, Order apparently have no clue about the idea of killing healers.
The following scenario fits 98% of my sc runs:

Let's say Nordenwatch.
You start, you run towards Lighthouse. Obviously, 6 people will sit there because they have some distorted idea that they GET something out of it. They get nothing besides being late at Fort.
We reach fort. Their black orcs/mara/chosen go to flag, and from that direction push towards us and push us back on bridge.
We have 4-5 rdps be it engis or BW's or w/e...they all focus the tanks. The tanks literally NEVER die because behind them, at flag, they have 2 zealots, 1 dok and 2 shamans.
Then, because they have no clue that fort gives 1.5x more points ( something i found out in the first fricking day i played ), they all run to barracks. They take it.
Thus, we never manage to push towards Fort. Regardless, they are at lighthouse.
Game over.

I can write a scenario like this for every map, because it happened over and over and over again until i know how they will end. I feel like a prophet because i just know what will happen.
Also, i write and i try to explain strategies from what i've learned ( altough they are such simple tactics that it is almost pathetic to think about explaining it to someone older than 15 ). No one reads. Most people have no idea of /sc chat and they keep their chat tab selected on the main one, where everyone spams on /advice.
Even this simple detail creates issues. They never think about clicking on RvR for example, filters, and making it for a sc/rvr environment.
These are all things that any MMO player does in the 2nd day of playing a game, after getting a little feel.

Talking to me about rr40 and stuff..i will NEVER level so high at this rate. The only pleasant experience of progression was with the 2x xp event. It felt ok-ish even when losing and when you won you had a big boost of xp.

Right now, i tried all archetypes on Order. My wp is cr29, so i invested more into him than anything else. The situation does not change at T2.
I have no hope left, might quit the game because i do not want to play a faction that i totally dislike because of the disastrous situation Order experience.

I dare anyone who posted here to give this a try. Make a new order char, level to 8 and begin SC'ing. I can almost guarantee you will find every sc goes like i just wrote.

Don't get me started on more "difficult" SC's like the one with the altar and skull. People run past by it, they do not even know what to do.
The dam map with the bomb, a total mess, people are clueless.
The elf map with 2 flags and the bridge. No idea what is going on.
Just terrible.

[Vlad333]

Nordenwatch scenario part 2:
We actually win first engagement, and we take fort. They chase literally until they reach their base, and just sit there.
A party of not braindead Destro go around them, lulz, take LH, come take Fort.
It happened right now. Lost.

[Phantasm]

Spoiler:

I made a tank, SM, just to try to see how tanking feels.
It is the same fricking situation. Loss after loss after loss. All evening lost every SC.
You people seriously believe this is normal? or that it is my fault? season pvper in WoW (2100 rating ) or even oldies like Shadowbane. I do not want to seem arrogant at all, but that is out of the question.
This plague is affecting Order hard. I never get healed as tank. Never.
Also, Order apparently have no clue about the idea of killing healers.
The following scenario fits 98% of my sc runs:

Let's say Nordenwatch.
You start, you run towards Lighthouse. Obviously, 6 people will sit there because they have some distorted idea that they GET something out of it. They get nothing besides being late at Fort.
We reach fort. Their black orcs/mara/chosen go to flag, and from that direction push towards us and push us back on bridge.
We have 4-5 rdps be it engis or BW's or w/e...they all focus the tanks. The tanks literally NEVER die because behind them, at flag, they have 2 zealots, 1 dok and 2 shamans.
Then, because they have no clue that fort gives 1.5x more points ( something i found out in the first fricking day i played ), they all run to barracks. They take it.
Thus, we never manage to push towards Fort. Regardless, they are at lighthouse.
Game over.

I can write a scenario like this for every map, because it happened over and over and over again until i know how they will end. I feel like a prophet because i just know what will happen.
Also, i write and i try to explain strategies from what i've learned ( altough they are such simple tactics that it is almost pathetic to think about explaining it to someone older than 15 ). No one reads. Most people have no idea of /sc chat and they keep their chat tab selected on the main one, where everyone spams on /advice.
Even this simple detail creates issues. They never think about clicking on RvR for example, filters, and making it for a sc/rvr environment.
These are all things that any MMO player does in the 2nd day of playing a game, after getting a little feel.

Talking to me about rr40 and stuff..i will NEVER level so high at this rate. The only pleasant experience of progression was with the 2x xp event. It felt ok-ish even when losing and when you won you had a big boost of xp.

Right now, i tried all archetypes on Order. My wp is cr29, so i invested more into him than anything else. The situation does not change at T2.
I have no hope left, might quit the game because i do not want to play a faction that i totally dislike because of the disastrous situation Order experience.

I dare anyone who posted here to give this a try. Make a new order char, level to 8 and begin SC'ing. I can almost guarantee you will find every sc goes like i just wrote.

Don't get me started on more "difficult" SC's like the one with the altar and skull. People run past by it, they do not even know what to do.
The dam map with the bomb, a total mess, people are clueless.
The elf map with 2 flags and the bridge. No idea what is going on.
Just terrible.

I from time to time roll a new class just to have a feeling of some progression. So I see same scenarios as you. I get irritated I also get frustrated and I sometimes shout in /sc chat (my apologies to anyone offended).

Simple example:
I play WP r26, got aoe heals and hots, join sc, 1st group has 1 RP r 18 so only can offer hots and cant keep up whole party, 2nd group 3 WPs 20+ r, 1 AM r30, 1 WH r38 and SM 20ish. Straight away in chat I ask pls make space p1 for heals. I ask again, as we all move to fort, me staying out of group with sc huge window open, we face destro and noone swaps. Grrrr. So we ended up with p1 dying constantly and p2 spreading around map cause of no real challenge for heals. And we lost.

Solution:
type /5 and find players for at least 1 tank, 1 dps and 1 heal. It make scs a lot easier, ppl that join groups tend to listen, have interest in winning. It doesnt have to be high rank best classes and nice gear, at least 3 ppl cooping as a team make a difference. And moreover, others in sc can get carried by your team and may consider thats the way to get a chance to win.