To give rdps CC before tanks should have been questionable

[drmordread]

Tesq, I have no problems at all with CC on other classes. It makes perfect sense, especially on weak no armor classes like stealth and rdps.

cc have to have a sense, not give it free boost, cc on squig and sw are fine and make sense , cos they do not make burst damage as sorc/bw and a rKD make them able to kill something and fill the gap of their less damage.
A rKD on bw is just a free boost given for NO REAL reason where a burst classes is actualy able to almost kill a healer in 5 sec rotation . If you want a group based game then this is not should be allowed. That's why when you get fest arrow + kd+ be rotation and it happen to die you blame order to actually dont let you play...........this is a game you need to play not make 2 preselect combo and kill someone in exatly 5 seconds letting him no way to counter that.
These are things to blame not to defend.The same fatc that sw become a burst class in 1.4.0 after found that crazy combo with fest arrow it's just something bad. SW wasn't designed to played that way, fest arrow was a not fixed exploit that become op in 1.4.0 due to double order rKD and 1.4.0 crit chance/ damage.

Edit: read what morf said above ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

If a sorc or BW dont have KD or root, they die. Simple as that. If an mdps charges or unstealths and attacks the Sorc/BW is dead dead dead .... their burst damage doesnt mean a thing. THAT is why they need the CC.

The comment about the Swordmasters; Don't ask me to shed tears. Out of all the tanks the SM has kickass dps that coupled with its survivability (because it is a tank) allow SM's/BOs to reach the back lines and disrupt the healers and rdps.

Like I said, (if you had read my original reply) the game is nearly perfect. YES, The SM/BO do need some review and redesign but both are viable tanks with specific tools that allow them to be useful.

[Azarael]

The comment about the Swordmasters; Don't ask me to shed tears. Out of all the tanks the SM has kickass dps that coupled with its survivability (because it is a tank) allow SM's/BOs to reach the back lines and disrupt the healers and rdps.

Musta missed all those groups that run Swordmasters :^)

Like I said, (if you had read my original reply) the game is nearly perfect.

Certainly did read it, I just disagree with the idea of saying that a failed game was "nearly perfect" without providing extremely detailed analysis. Especially when that game contains Marauder joke utility, Knight/Chosen mechanic, Slayers, screwed up mechanics that don't actually scale properly in T4 or even really work properly (pet classes), screwed up design that buggers over certain DoT classes (group cleanse), "mechanics" which are debuffs that are not properly compensated for within the class' ability balance (sword dance/brawling), mechanics that failed to accomplish their purpose (AM/Shaman), useless tactics, abilities, trees, etc.

[drmordread]

Its all situation based and discussing it is different to actually pvp'ing.
classes,CC,balance discusions are valid but the game was mostly fine how it was, only a few changes here and there would improve the game balance and they were mostly all endgame skills and issues, the biggest problem which made lesser issues seem like big issues were good players fighting undergeared or noob players and this will never change.

Edit-let me add we can all help balance issues some ppl have by trying to help them. i have had a few fights on my shaman on this server where ppl have said shaman op blah blah but the problem was actually them spamming skills leaving them no ap to recover, not having a valid rotation or not pre hotting and the same can be said with issues on mythic servers, alot of issues ppl had can be dealt with by understanding how stuff works and how to counter it.

AMEN BROTHER AMEN AMEN AMEN

Everything comes down to knowing your class. Know who it is OP against and know who is OP against you.

I give up. Go ahead and keep complaining. I played WAR for four+ years all the way to the end. It took time but I went from dying all the time to killing more than dying. I learned my class abilities, WH, WE, DoK, WP, AM, Shamie, SH, BG, SM and SW. I had FUN! I figured out what my weaknesses were and played around them.

Class Balance is THERE! You have to look for it, but it is there. You wont see it though no matter how many people point it out to you. Keep crying if it makes you feel better. But I recommend finding out how to play.

[Azarael]

Been balancing for years, but keep using ad hominem and contradiction as if they were arguments, it's a very novel strategy and I've never seen it employed before.

At this stage, though, there's very little purpose in me, or anyone else, arguing the point. Better way to handle this is to wait for T4, so that the meta reverts to the state it was on on the live server, point out how the group composition is biased against certain classes and deal with it from there, where theorycrafting and "game is perfect don't change it" can easily be shut down by pointing out that groups that want to win won't make use of certain classes.

That being said, I'll back out from the thread and let it get back to the topic.

[Coryphaus]

That being said, I'll back out from the thread and let it get back to the topic.

Dont think there really is a point; right after page one this thread derailed VERRRY fast, mentioning the (im)balance of maras tends to do that apparently

I think KoBs and chosen should have gotten thier KBs at 12 not 16 and maybe their should have been some mirror situational KD for destro like IB's right now melee just gets blown around like ping pongs and closing in on any rdps just get you a root in rvr.

[drmordread]

One note on the "built to win" groups.

Most fun I ever had was in a 6 man with 1 WP (heal spec) and 5 WH's. And Lucento was dragon gun spec for lolz ....
Stared down an entire wb of destro (15 plus). When we stealthed they all turned and ran!

Will there be people who only want certain classes in their grps? YUP!... These are people who can not play and need need that one special combination of people to win. Most people just form a 6 man and go have fun. That is the only win in this game.

[Aurilian]

I am not saying Mythic designed the perfect game. But they came close to it. The only problems I have with CC are that the SW and SH have five (5) by rr80 that can be used in a correct order one after another and all 5 will work.
That is more cc than a tank.

Other than that, everything else is just fine.

One thing that everyone forgets is that WAR (when working properly) is meant to be a group / team game. What one toon lacks in abilities is made up by others in the group. This is not to say that solo play is not viable. Even though this is a team game, most classes can solo quite effectively if played correctly and the player uses terrain / map to their advantage.

The one place where class inequality is mostly evident is in duels. But then again WAR is not designed for dueling. Example; In a duel I can never beat a shamie / AM on my WH / WE. But when I am out ganking, I usually get them.

BW's and Sorcs are always easy meat when they are solo. Rarely, you will run into a player so good that you can not beat their BW or Sorc, but that is because the player is awesome, not because the class is OP.

Swordmaster.

Thanks for playing.

In other news, giving all the fragile classes many tools to negate their own fragility while neglecting to allow the actual control classes to control the battlefield is not what I'd call near-perfect design.

WHAT!?!?! WHAT IS THIS? A DEV THAT KNOWS THE PLIGHT OF US SWORDMASTERS?!?!? I have waited years for this day, truly this is not the darkest timeline!

[TenTonHammer]

Wasn't sword master like super good at being surviveable and could outlast pretty much every other class?

[Aurilian]

I believe out of all the tanks the IB was the most survivable, but then again it's been years since I've played

[Aurilian]

Also had the best cc out of all the tanks, and the grudge mechanic was awesome.