Status of the Choppa ?.

[Cimba]

Chopa fasta has a 10 sec duration, hence why i said 50sec downtime.

If i remember correctly the choppa has 1 undefendable attack wich is the knockdown and has a 20sec cd and also removes your rage. The WE and the Mara have none I think.

So even in the best case a mdps has maybe 1 attack that is undefendable and the slayer can make EVERY attack undefendable. Who cares right?

Man, I gotta tell you something. I recently found out that you cant parry if you're hit in the back! Crazy isnt it? That's like rampage for everyone. Initially I was really pissed because I am a slayer I am supposed to be the only one with undefenable attacks . But I relalized my thats just my slayer privilege speaking and now I'm happy that everyone can enjoy undefenable attacks!

[zaauk]

Does dual wield boost your parry as it did on live?
Cant see it on the stats.

Btw. choppa is great, but not solo

[Ysaran]

Does dual wield boost your parry as it did on live?
Cant see it on the stats.

Btw. choppa is great, but not solo

Yes! You should see It with .getstat

[Gangan]

Dual wield gives 10%parry and 2h gives 10% Block-strikethrough. (yes, block, not parry)

[zaauk]

Awsome <3

[Tesq]

Chopa fasta has a 10 sec duration, hence why i said 50sec downtime.

If i remember correctly the choppa has 1 undefendable attack wich is the knockdown and has a 20sec cd and also removes your rage. The WE and the Mara have none I think.

So even in the best case a mdps has maybe 1 attack that is undefendable and the slayer can make EVERY attack undefendable. Who cares right?

Man, I gotta tell you something. I recently found out that you cant parry if you're hit in the back! Crazy isnt it? That's like rampage for everyone. Initially I was really pissed because I am a slayer I am supposed to be the only one with undefenable attacks . But I relalized my thats just my slayer privilege speaking and now I'm happy that everyone can enjoy undefenable attacks!

guess what i recently found out too anyone can """turn""" aswell denying the fact that you cannot parry from behind !!!

shame that this part of the gameplay get denyied by a slayer privilege raw stat.... with equal skill no one will get on your back or if happen for very serious short ammount of time mostly post KD (which involve spent a KD on you and giving you immunity after it and not for free as rampage) .....also ramapge cd can be lowered to 22 sec ...and can be 20 sec duration, so it last 20 sec over 22 of CD.....just to put there some more privilege.

idk where the balance lie when 1 skill deny 1 tactic, 20 renown points invested in avoidance and 1 self buff alltogheter with "no drawback" (why you should ignore 70% of parry from a target, with ease? denying point investiment if as said you cna just turn on his back for make thing harder for him? why do it from the front???).

-be yellow with "no rampage" or green "with rampage" give out the same dmg output from hit someone in the front or more depending how much the target is heavily spec into avoidance--->no drawback and can have pro
-rampage can be remove as all other temp buff which increase the dmg output (mara/wl)-->no additional drawback compared to similar skills--->balance itself want that most raw dmg increase or decrease in game can be remove
-the CD is incorrect per other core block/parry debuff on choppa/slayer ( 50% with 1 min cd)
-is not only st buff but aoe aswell so the value is incorrect as it both stack on st debuff and work on aoe so it should not be 100% but likely 25% as in line with other buff of the same kind (half the value of the st core debuff so total of 50+25% on st and 25% on aoe skill)
-rampage is not the only problem shatter liimbs value is incorrect , ST cd increase are 5 sec so aoe cd increase must be half value not the same so 2.5 sec (same squig)(and same correspective problem for cd increase in game)(also these type of debuff dont have immunity and can be only cleanse passing a see of debuff first)

then after fix these flaw you can start fix incommon slayer and choppa core aoe build problems

-not working aoe perma rage build
-not working st perma rage build
-lack of defense in mid mastery
-possible lack of dmg from aoe mastery
-order physical DD problem in mara GoM

->even nerf rampage to 25% mean +str bypass have like 35% raw ignore on block/parry in dual weild
-35% ignore in dual weild mean all dps will see anyway their parry ignored exept dps dok problably (+10 from tactic)
-tank with gear progression will see most of their avoidance ignored but not totaly as per now
-rampage shatterable as said above is not a peculiar drawback which put rampage in line, moreover Ib can buff slayer parry to 70% to further enchant his ability in survive and difficulty to shatter rampage (base slayer avoidance 45% +25% ib buff =70% which is a parry value a chosen ,tank archtype, reach by invest 1 tactic, 1 self buff, 20 renown point invested).

aka
-offensive slayer stacking potential is absurd
-defensive slayer stacking potential is absurd
-debuff slayer potential is absurd
-choppa dont have stacking potential at all with any tank nor dps

Spoiler:

(sy for the long post but i dont like lies)

[Cimba]

guess what i recently found out too anyone can """turn""" aswell denying the fact that you cannot parry from behind !!!

shame that this part of the gameplay get denyied by a slayer privilege raw stat.... with equal skill no one will get on your back or if happen for very serious short ammount of time mostly post KD (which involve spent a KD on you and giving you immunity after it and not for free as rampage) .....also ramapge cd can be lowered to 22 sec ...and can be 20 sec duration, so it last 20 sec over 22 of CD.....just to put there some more privilege.

Tried it. Doesnt work properly. Since there are too many instances where it can be disable (KD/ChCh).
It is also show cased in the fact that for the last couple of years AW spam was a viable strategy on WE. Which only works if you can reliably land the back style.

I actually used the cd decrease while I was running 2h but Ramapge is most certanily not the reason why. Anyway, against good opponents Rampage simply doesnt matter because virtually the only time frame where people die is during ChCh/KD/Tank punts. As is shown at almost all 6on6 events.

idk where the balance lie when 1 skill deny 1 tactic, 20 renown points invested in avoidance and 1 self buff alltogheter with "no drawback" (why you should ignore 70% of parry from a target, with ease? denying point investiment if as said you cna just turn on his back for make thing harder for him? why do it from the front???).

I get it. Chosen can stack parry to flat out stupid values with minimal investment and you're pissed about a dwarf who doesnt care about it. The fact that Chosens are only targeted when virtually everyone else in the group is dead, doesnt even enter your calculation.

-be yellow with "no rampage" or green "with rampage" give out the same dmg output from hit someone in the front or more depending how much the target is heavily spec into avoidance--->no drawback and can have pro

Thats just flat out wrong. The backstyle does a lot more damage than the anytimers even more so in yellow.

-not working aoe perma rage build
-not working st perma rage build
-lack of defense in mid mastery
-possible lack of dmg from aoe mastery
-order physical DD problem in mara GoM

I actually agree with these.

->even nerf rampage to 25% mean +str bypass have like 35% raw ignore on block/parry in dual weild
-35% ignore in dual weild mean all dps will see anyway their parry ignored exept dps dok problably (+10 from tactic)
-tank with gear progression will see most of their avoidance ignored but not totaly as per now
-rampage shatterable as said above is not a peculiar drawback which put rampage in line, moreover Ib can buff slayer parry to 70% to further enchant his ability in survive and difficulty to shatter rampage (base slayer avoidance 45% +25% ib buff =70% which is a parry value a chosen ,tank archtype, reach by invest 1 tactic, 1 self buff, 20 renown point invested).

I dont know why bring up IBs. But parry stacking matters for tanks to negate guard damage. For mdps it is much less worthwhile because you will get ChCH and have a lot lower HP/Armor so you actually die during knock downs. In all these cases parry doesnt do anything for you. Thats why mdps usually stack crit reduction.

I dont know why I ever argue with you. You just gonna hit me with another text wall.

[Bowldancer]

idk where the balance lie when 1 skill deny 1 tactic, 20 renown points invested in avoidance and 1 self buff alltogheter with "no drawback" (why you should ignore 70% of parry from a target, with ease? denying point investiment

I find it ridiculous when a chosen starts pointing fingers.
Three Auras with no drawback that not only buff you AND your whole group but debuff the opponents in an area as well.

-Last time i checked Thargrimm had over 700 statpoints more than me (that is before he debuffs me and the discrepancy grows even further), while having twice my resists (before they are halved!) and heavy armor.
- A Marauder can ignore 950+ Weaponskill with just a stance-swap
- A Marauder can bypass 50% armor with a tactic for which i have to invest 700 statpoints - as Slayer/Choppa are the only physical DPS without any means beside Weaponskill to bypass/debuff armor. Nowadays even DoK/WP/Eng have an ability to bypass 25%.
- A Witchelf can ignore 100% armor (they have even 2 armor bypassing abilities on top of that) while having stealth, charge with stealth, a backflip, a reliable +crit damage tactic, +100% disrupt
- A Melee Squig can double his armor to run 5k-6k+ and leap around
- Blackguard has ... i better stop here

I could go on and on. It is all so unfair when the point of view is narrow enough.
Is Rampage a very strong ability ? Yes and a very convenient one but not the boogeyman you make it out to be.

[Tesq]

@cimba
@Bowldancer

chosen stacking parry is a good exemple of investiment vs a no investiment at all by pointing out how much stupid is chosen stacking parry you denying the fact that he had to invest on it and is rather restric to s+b while also reling on self buff which can be removed and need to land first (ib can do the same thing just swapping one the two chosen 25% of parry for 10% block, my problem with your way to reason is that they invest on it and they are tanks you on the other hand dont invest on it anything, furthermore is a buff you can bring along with you all the time on contraire to a debuff which is drop on a fix person and so it can be use for aoe purpose .....)

rampage can nageate all of this by simple be press it dosent require any hard condition and as said above his updatetime can be extended, a 5 pt point skill present in any build denying rightfull investiment with an update time between 2/3 and 3/3 of the time....

i also pointed out a destro problem which keep this bubble of flaws up ( like mara GoM ) and i am sure there are other aswell yet this is not a good point to keep unbalanced stuff in game and play the card of keep buff whats not working. There are multipler synergy on rampage going on and indirect (as Ib exemple) way to make it more worth or hard to deal with.

also it dosent matter that you are able to kill post KD only, it also matter the pressure you put becasue if you are able to kd and kill someone is also due the previously pressure and dmg you were doing earlier otherwise some one would jsut dont care about a KD because

if kD+ focus dosen't always = kill, then pressure pre kd +focus is the variable which allow you to kill something.

again tell me where the balance lie between

Spoiler:

-drop da basha/numbing strike = 50% debuff for 10 sec 1 mincd (influence 1 ppl)
-rampage= 100% buff bypass for 20 sec CD 22-30 (influence between 1 and 9 ppl depending on skill used)

Spoiler:

-tired alredy = 5 sec cd increase for 10 sec CD 20 (influence 1 ppl)
-shatter limbs/indigestion = 5 sec CD increase for 10 sec CD 20 (influence between 1 -9 ppl)

scaler on shatterlimbs and indigestion are dumb they dont solve any problem since the game is based always on be concentrated togheter due how guard and supporting each other work.

the fact you recognize the slayer/choppa build construction problem but denying the flaws going on is simple a matter of fear of bad balance be undertaken on your class which i cant really blame you for... yet it still like this

[Diggot]

Ok. So after 10 pages of pointing out flaws and cracks in the class, i think we've come to
the conlusion that Choppas are not a viable class unless you have pocketheal and guard,
and even then... they're easily killed.
There is no hidden multiplier for taking up 3 players to make 1 class on-par with the rest of the classes,
and Choppa abilities are still behind in usefullness compared to the slayers.

So... now to the question - how do we balance the choppa so they either becomes solo-viable and not a free-kill,
or give them the multiplies for requiring 3 classes to make 1 class viable ?.

A few suggestions would be to give them 100% armorpen on their backstab, just like most other mdps.
Give 2handed bonus parry-pen, not just block-pen - it's only logical that you break parry with a 2hander.

And like some others pointed out, i would reduce the penalty for going berserk.

Neither the BW or the Sorc has much of a penalty for going all out, a simple HoT will counter their penalty,
and they are ranged so they have the safety of range. But both Choppas and (reluctantly) slayers does not
have the safety of range.. yet their penalty for going all out, is much much worse.

Thanks for the forum-mods for the patience, i can be rather testing in my crusade for class-balance, especially since i main choppa.