About bags, medals and general RVR

[Collateral]

While it's definitely true that the game became zergier than ever, I don't have the same feelings about the old bag system. Yes there were more groups and warbands, but I don't think the changes to bags is the only thing that impacted them. Even when I was in a hardcore rvr guild, it took a massive amount of time to grind out conq, especially with small groups leeching like no tomorrow (this is changed now with the new kill system that rewards the damage done and not the killing blow). If I played only for the gear I would've given up long ago. I think back then it was actually easier for small groups to get full gear than for actual warbands that did the heavy lifting. But that's not what matters here anyway so I won't go there.

Currently I'm kinda in the middle. It's true that it's far easier to get bags. I would get gold bags after being in the zone for 5 minutes, but other times I would literally get no bags after being in a zone for an hour (and not just afk leeching). I can't quite understand the system. But I agree that this malus is going to really kill off any kind of groups left out there. It's forcing people to do something they don't want to, or simply can't, i.e. to log to the other side. Maybe you could switch zones, but no one is going to do that, if we are being realistic. And it's never a good idea to punish people and force them to do things.

People zerg, always will. Nothing you can do about that. Soloing was never a big part of the game either, and it will never be (nor should it imo). I understand if people like playing like that, but it's simply not how the game was supposed to be played. You certainly can of course, but I wouldn't expect much of it anyway.

I am for removing the keep lords entirely. They serve almost no purpose. A mini boss in an rvr zone? Just why? You get no gear from him (unless you get a bag I guess), he barely impacts the keep siege (maybe if there was like 3 parties attacking he would), and everyone lags when they target him cuz of all the damn debuffs etc. Put a flag in the middle of the keep that takes 5-10 mins to cap, or any amount of time. Literally no one is interested in staying on the keep for 10+ minutes and hitting a damn mob, especially if you outnumber the enemy significantly already. Just kill him and be done with it in a reasonable time, or better yet remove him.

All in all I agree, punishing people for killing others in a pvp game is just ridiculous.

[Eathisword]

People zerg, always will. Nothing you can do about that. Soloing was never a big part of the game either, and it will never be (nor should it imo). I understand if people like playing like that, but it's simply not how the game was supposed to be played. You certainly can of course, but I wouldn't expect much of it anyway.

All in all I agree, punishing people for killing others in a pvp game is just ridiculous.

My post wasn't in a spirit to promote soloing (I understand the game isn't designed around it and I am fine with that), but to promote variety. And to actively promote fighting. Fight in WB, 6 man, PuG group, solo. I don'T care. But that a lot of people can get every reward by NEVER truly fighting for it is bad design.

Now, if a pug WB gets wipe they stop attacking. Losing the zone also give you a loot roll. So let other side cap. The only goal is to cap a keep. Don't matter which one. Very few people seem play to fight now. And playing to fight should freaking be the goal. Maybe not the only goal, but a very prominent one at least.

Yes this can create stalemate. IT happened in the past. But a stalemate with 2000 kills in the zone is better than a 15 minutes keep cap with 8 kills with a malus of 80% renown and no medals. Imo.

I'm sick and tired of people/group/WB running away from fights all the time. People don't take any chances to fights anymore, cause it doesn't matter if they do or don't.

[oaliaen]

TOTTALLY AGREED

[Wyvernblade]

Was sitting at a BO with about a dozen people. Enemy had AAO. An enemy 6 man ran into the BO looking for AFKs. We killed them all and I got 19... yes, 19 renown points. The BO ticked and gave 26 renown points. More renown for sitting at a BO than killing an enemy 6 man? Something is broken.

[AxelF]

Absolutely, no way in hell you should be penalised for killing players in a PvP game, and even more bizzarely kills is the only aspect of the game it applies to, not afking on a BO or zerging a keep.

If you want people to seek out the less populated side you need to reward them with proper rr bonuses from kills, not just application of stick to the populated realm - some of whom may not have alts (Incentivise them to roll one with a bigger rr boost from AAO) and they may not be able to move zones as often only 1 is open. As it stands people will quit, not reroll on the other side.

A better option would be to remove all rr and bag contribution from BOs, and increase it from kills - make people fight if they want to get loot/rr.

Increase the rr gain from having AAO, but you'll only get it if you kill players, or are in combat with players. Nothing from BO sitting. Incentivise both sides to look for fights, and use carrot not (or as well as) stick.

All this change has done is remove all incentive for the populated side to fight - you get way more now from afking on a BO for 40 mins and then rocking up to the keep with the other 3 WBs and afking there for another 20 mins.

The undepopulated side now has less chance of finding a fight and winning their bonus rr from kills, as all the enemy are afk on a BO.

[Aethilmar]

I don't know if guys remember the early days of WAR (not RoR) where they used to have sub-components to a zone cap:

1) Zone objective control
2) Kills
3) SC wins
4) PQ participation

I'll just give you a little preview of what will happen if they choose to emphasize kills (or other non-objective metrics) over objectives. First you will have people running around smashing people in the face for a little bit (yay) but when one side is obviously stronger than the other then the other side will log out or switch zones to deny the enemy kills.

And if you DARE to enter the zone in anything less than a fully geared premade and give up kills to the enemy you will be castigated by the elites on your side for screwing up the zone. This, in turn, will turn off any new blood coming in to the game.

This WILL happen because it has happened before and it will happen again. You can't fix human nature and, at the end of the day, the same type of jerks who were playing this before (including me) are playing it now.

The current version is actually pretty decent even if it breaks down in the edge cases.

[Onemantankwall]

hate to be "that guy" but lets add actual logic to your thought. Current system is as blessing for those under aao (yes i tested) it boosts the aao sides morale we wipe and wipe but im not seeing the mass logs anymore that comes with being aao steam rolled. IF we were to reverse it to say kills only, well sorry to tell ya eventually after chasing those 2-3 players left on the aao side around they're gonna get fed up and quit, giving aao kill rewards promotes uneven population farming, farming causes quitters, eventually quiters call it quits for good. Yes you hate it, but you also refuse to play the underpopulated side to see what its actually happening. Xrealm once again is NOT a bad thing. We have O N E server with T W O realms without xrealm 1 side will run the game indefinitely then itll die because once again people will be tired of getting farmed. Atm the rvr focus is keep sieges and soon fort/city sieges not farming the smaller army till they throw in the white flag and call it quits. You can still kill people for the "fun of it" but now its without exploiting the population numbers if killing with or without gain isnt fun then why are u playing a game about KILLING things (not staring at purple numbers)? ik i dont play just to watch purple numbers scroll on my screen i play to fight die and repeat. "But it's war!!!!" real war no one would be dumb enough to send a small army of 24 people against double and sometimes triple their army theyd simply surrender or retreat.


All I ask is log the lower pop side and try it out, you'll find a surprising change in player morale and u'll see very nice fights. and if youre playing just to watch purple numbers scroll on a screen then you werent ever really having fun with the game anyway

(now let the hate for my comment flow)

[Xergon]

guys guys guys...
game is fine... don't worry about...
get friends and have fun...

we all are doomed for mercy and wishful thinking of you know who...
so again...
don't worry about minor things... have fun...

and yes, PvE is best than ever, much more enjoying than any kind of PvP atm...
not to mention that it's more rewarding aswell...
6man premades in Scenarios/RvR ?
reward: 4-5k rp from winning Isha after 10min of intense fights
premade WB with discipline and best comp killing and fighting zerg ?
reward: some renown farm (if ur enemy actually have some RR) and cow pies in mail

[Athergic]

I don't think it's minor things anymore, this game has drastically changed over the last year. At least from my solo/duo small scale perspective, I know tough titty, not a solo game.

Spoiler:

I believe DAOC had classes that were better at solo/duels, as well as warhammer, Camelot unchained even talks about solo viability of classes. They did this I believe because they know solo players make up a portion of the game, and people are going to do it anyways. So why not give them a way to be effective in that aspect with maybe one build or 2 builds.

Sorry I know a little off topic, but who coined the not a solo game thing? It's pretty obvious that it's group based, but did the creators ever state anywhere that this is not a game to be played by yourself? It just doesn't seem like something a company would do as it could scare off potential customers, and after seeing Mark Jacobs talk about the solo viability of a lot of classes on unchained, it made me think, maybe he designed all his games with all playstyles in mind, just like, gankers, soloers, 6 mans, warbands. I'm just happy I got to experience the game when I did, and got some cool videos to remind my self.

Thanks for the write up Volgograd, quality post.

[Foltestik]

i absolutly agree with volgo.
just look at top renown players and you will see how hard is to get renown (most of them are zerg surfing players)