Talkin Chop, recent choppa changes.

[Athergic]

The new version of wear em down, and violent impacts functions as an entirely different tactic, while trying to achieve something similar. I'm not bashing the tactic, I think it's awesome in certain situations. But the original tactic functioned fine, and did what it was supposed to do. I much prefer the older tactic, because I could go from knock down to green/yellow based on chance. Now if I use knock down in red, and get stunned/disarmed or cc'd some other way I can easily be trapped in red. When the whole focus of the 2h tree is to burn your rage and stay a healthy orc.

I've had zero success on balance proposals in the past and would greatly appreciate some input, if this is something i could possibly propose to be put through.
My idea would be to leave wear em down as a core tactic, that doesn't work with the new version that is in the tree, or vise versa.
ideally I would like multiple choices in the same tree, but I don't know if that is possible. If something is underperforming and planned to be removed, maybe just leave it there, with a second option that you could choose one or the other. Think the alternate AB version of some classes, but with the talent tree. For instance black guards could choose either blade of ruin, or the knock down. but not both.

Detuant dropping rage, I think is ridiculous, detaunt should do what it does no matter what with out any consideration of class mechanic. Slayer has 3 abilities to drop rage if specced. And choppa has 2 reliable methods, I included flee. I would rather see the toughness buff or weapons skill buff drop rage as they are not core archetype abilities.

Thanks for reading, let me know what you think, and have a great day!

[Sulorie]

Why do you want to spend 2 gcd to detaunt properly, when in red? You detaunt only, when you have to back off, in this case you don't need rage at all, you have to get out of trouble.

[Athergic]

Why do you want to spend 2 gcd to detaunt properly, when in red? You detaunt only, when you have to back off, in this case you don't need rage at all, you have to get out of trouble.

I had no problem using detuant before, now it can affect how I deal damage or if i'm using a finisher or not. I just feel like it's one of the abilities that shouldn't really be messed with, it seems very favorable for duel wield wb choppa, but it can negatively affect 2h hitta. I don't always detaunt in red, sometimes green or yellow, also I don't detaunt only to back off, DT has offensive applications as well.

[Sulorie]

Why do you want to spend 2 gcd to detaunt properly, when in red? You detaunt only, when you have to back off, in this case you don't need rage at all, you have to get out of trouble.

I had no problem using detuant before, now it can affect how I deal damage or if i'm using a finisher or not. I just feel like it's one of the abilities that shouldn't really be messed with, it seems very favorable for duel wield wb choppa, but it can negatively affect 2h hitta. I don't always detaunt in red, sometimes green or yellow, also I don't detaunt only to back off, DT has offensive applications as well.

A 5 sec detaunt can't be used offensively, you save it for times, where your guard tank is punted away. When the detaunt is over you are back in yellow. Having to dump rage and spend another gcd for detaunt is very bad.
Having no trouble using it for 2h choppa.

[Bowldancer]

I consider 'Wear Em Down' and 'Violent Impacts' a brilliant design decision which opens new playstyle and build possibilities.
It was an absolutely useless tactic before as it was unreliable.

[Athergic]

Why do you want to spend 2 gcd to detaunt properly, when in red? You detaunt only, when you have to back off, in this case you don't need rage at all, you have to get out of trouble.

I had no problem using detuant before, now it can affect how I deal damage or if i'm using a finisher or not. I just feel like it's one of the abilities that shouldn't really be messed with, it seems very favorable for duel wield wb choppa, but it can negatively affect 2h hitta. I don't always detaunt in red, sometimes green or yellow, also I don't detaunt only to back off, DT has offensive applications as well.

A 5 sec detaunt can't be used offensively, you save it for times, where your guard tank is punted away. When the detaunt is over you are back in yellow. Having to dump rage and spend another gcd for detaunt is very bad.
Having no trouble using it for 2h choppa.

Yes it can, and I used it often for such purposes. You don't have to dump rage, you make a choice to, it's part of the class mechanic. The bottom line is Detaunt was changed to cater to warband choppas/slayers who can't be bothered with managing their rage properly. The new detaunt can screw over rage burning 2h choppas, just like the old detaunt could screw over aggressive dps who couldn't plan ahead. I see the benefits, but the side effects no one seems to care about.

[Athergic]

I consider 'Wear Em Down' and 'Violent Impacts' a brilliant design decision which opens new playstyle and build possibilities.
It was an absolutely useless tactic before as it was unreliable.

Opens up new playstyle, and closes an old one. I want to see both tactics in game, but not functional together.
The tactic always served the purpose it was supposed to. While slotted, I knew for sure I was either going back to green, or getting another swing in with a finisher. That's where it's reliable, you can count on one of 2 outcomes and can play accordingly.

[Sulorie]

Yes it can, and I used it often for such purposes. You don't have to dump rage, you make a choice to, it's part of the class mechanic. The bottom line is Detaunt was changed to cater to warband choppas/slayers who can't be bothered with managing their rage properly. The new detaunt can screw over rage burning 2h choppas, just like the old detaunt could screw over aggressive dps who couldn't plan ahead. I see the benefits, but the side effects no one seems to care about.

It wasn't changed with a certain play style in mind.
The only moment where you use 5 sec detaunt on a 30 sec cd is when you are in big trouble. It is wasted to detaunt for such a short time and keep hitting the enemy and getting all focus. After detaunting you play defensively until your tank is back, you shouldn't think about what exhaust you are using to damage the enemy . Additionally any exhaust you are using after detaunt breaks it again on that target.
In a group you never have to detaunt unless tank is out of guard range and you get focus, this is the only time where you use it. In all other cases you can burn rage with skills to get out of red.
Only detaunt, when you get focus dmg and no tank is in range. In such a case you want to drop rage as fast as possible and detaunt as well and forget about dealing damage, because you have to survive the focus.
All in all I completely disagree with you here.

[Sulorie]

I consider 'Wear Em Down' and 'Violent Impacts' a brilliant design decision which opens new playstyle and build possibilities.
It was an absolutely useless tactic before as it was unreliable.

Opens up new playstyle, and closes an old one. I want to see both tactics in game, but not functional together.
The tactic always served the purpose it was supposed to. While slotted, I knew for sure I was either going back to green, or getting another swing in with a finisher. That's where it's reliable, you can count on one of 2 outcomes and can play accordingly.

That's the opposite of reliable to me. Reliable would be to know, that you are guaranteed to get a 2nd exhaustive attack. The new tactic has this effect.

[Athergic]

I consider 'Wear Em Down' and 'Violent Impacts' a brilliant design decision which opens new playstyle and build possibilities.
It was an absolutely useless tactic before as it was unreliable.

Opens up new playstyle, and closes an old one. I want to see both tactics in game, but not functional together.
The tactic always served the purpose it was supposed to. While slotted, I knew for sure I was either going back to green, or getting another swing in with a finisher. That's where it's reliable, you can count on one of 2 outcomes and can play accordingly.

That's the opposite of reliable to me. Reliable would be to know, that you are guaranteed to get a 2nd exhaustive attack. The new tactic has this effect.

Poor word choice on my part, It was far from useless though. After five seconds in combat, I could possibly use 3 to 4 exhaustive attacks. With the new tactic, I can use an exhaustive attack and be put into green for a couple seconds before using another, or I can wait for rage to fill up to use a few in a row. Getting to the point where you can use 3 exhausting blows however, leads you to red which is vulnerable, the hitta choppa doesn't want to go there, only for knock down typically.

So if I want to get the most out of a tactic in a tree, that focuses on exhausting rage before red, I need to wait five seconds in red?

I think the new tactic is neat, it's definitely one of the more inventive changes as far as tactics go. I would rather use flanking though at this point, as pent up rage is funky for hitta and exposes me to red to much. I think it would be better suited for Wrecka tree, it actually looks like that would be really fun to try for me at least.

My primary goal is that I am seeking to make Balance proposal to restore wear em down and violent impacts as core tactics that don't stack with the new editions. I was hoping for input on the balance proposal idea as well. Sorry for all the text, and thanks for the discussion