The 6-man vs Warband issue with AAO

[Luuca]

In NA Prime, the faction balance has become overwhelmingly Destruction heavy. There are many factors to this; Order lack of viable warband specs for classes, lack of warband utility, etc.

The response Order has taken has been to play in small 6-man groups, independently fighting and kiting the Destru Warbands as they can. I, myself, will normally only run in these 6-man groups so I have first-hand knowledge of why chasing AAO and Conqs is more advantageous in smallman.

The issue:

Several 6-mans in a zone will harass the enemy and get decent rewards for doing so, but will never prevent a zone lock or put up a great keep defense against a larger force. Zones fall like dominoes for the larger faction while the AAO underdogs scrap for kills in 6-mans or half-hearted PuG warbands full of lowbies suckling at the teet of BO renown ticks.

There are several advantages to running a 6-man under AAO conditions.

1. SC Que: 6-mans can que for SCs while roaming for kills. If I join a warband, I cannot ques for SCs. SCs are the one place the underdog faction can find an even fight with a clear objective(s). Taking away the ability for a party to que for SCs in a warband takes away the opportunity for some "fair" fights while playing against an overwhelming force. Sometimes you need a break from Black Crag - shocking, I know.

2. Conqueror Medallions: In a 6-man, we set up as optimal group as we can and I have a 1 in 6 chance (or better if running with players passing on Conq Meds because they no longer need) of winning Conq Medallions on Kills. If I join a Pug WB, I have no control over who is in my party and may end up with less Conq Meds. As a salvager, Conq Medallions are still a viable source of both income and Talis to help my guild, Alliance members, etc.

In a 6-man we end up losing the zone, but the rewards are greater. In WB, we end up losing the zone and the rewards are less. So why bother with the WB?

I submit that if we could incentivise the 6-man groups to form warbands and coordinate their efforts, we may defend the zone and perhaps even take the enemy keep with AAO. But why bother if the rewards system tells me to stay in a 6-man?

Suggestion:

As the title suggests, the underdog faction needs an incentive to forgo the advantages of 6-man with AAO by lessening the drawbacks of WB with AAO.

Conditions that must be met:
1. Faction Must have AAO
2. Players must be in a Warband
3. Warband must have minimum of 12 players

Bonuses:

When WB has 12 players:
1. Parties are allowed to que SCs

2. AAO additive bonus of 3%
* Additional additive 3% for each additional full party
* 6% with 18 Players in WB
* 9% with 24 players in WB

3. Increased Conq Medallion Drop rate
* Additional additive 3% chance for Conq Med drop on kill with 12 players
* 6% additive chance for Conq Med drop on kill with 18 Players in WB
* 9% additive chance for Conq Med drop on kill with 24 Players in WB

Making these small additive changes to warband play will not solve the issues Order has in terms of warband viability at this time; however, it will provide an incentive for the outnumbered players to weigh the benefits of starting/joining a warband vs playing in a 6-man. You effectively take the objections away by allowing for SC ques, providing a small RR bonus, and a better chance of getting Conq Medallions. We would need the ability to join a warband as a 6-man, like on live, as well as party que in warband.

As a side benefit, those PuG players who actually need RR and Conqs badly, will benefit more, and bring the gear/RR up for the underdog realm at an ever-so-slightly higher rate; allowing them to be more competitive over time.

While not a true fix for the ORvR issues today, these changes to the underdog realm will remove the obstacles preventing the 6-man teams from committing to Warband play for ORvR, and help solidify the underdog realm in defense.

[Panodil]

Loot is not shared in warband, still only party that rolls on conq. The party with best damage will win more conq.

[Mystry]

Even contemplating any issue with the rewards between warband vs 6 man is pointless as the very presence of AAO means that you are heavily outnumbered, and even if you DID group into a warband, you'd still be smushed into the ground because Order simply does not have the numbers.

[Luuca]

Even contemplating any issue with the rewards between warband vs 6 man is pointless as the very presence of AAO means that you are heavily outnumbered, and even if you DID group into a warband, you'd still be smushed into the ground because Order simply does not have the numbers.

I disagree. It takes less to defend than attack, but the defense must be a coordinated effort. There is no easy way to coordinate between independent groups. With the caliber of players in dedicated 6-mans, and allowing these incentives to form warbands, I believe it would make for better fights in ORvR Keep Takes as well as bring back into the lakes some of the disillusioned players who left because they got tired of getting stomped for less rewards.

Also, all of those so-called "AAO chasing" x-realmers (if they truly exist) would help balance the zones in theory.

[Luuca]

Loot is not shared in warband, still only party that rolls on conq. The party with best damage will win more conq.

Did not know this. Seems flawed to me. I am a 40 that gets stuck with 5 level 17s in a WB. Im screwed.

Edited initial post based upon this information.

[Aurandilaz]

You still have issues such as;

Spec, a spec that works for oRvR is not best spec for SC, good luck respeccing where exactly? every time you join a sc? cannot, so you suffer for it.
SC rewards, Dominator gear goes to the trashpile if not playing a class that is either offtank or dps healer or gets best stat combo from running some kinda of Dom-Conq-BL combo, so a lot of classes will just ignore the sc gear. rr39 weap is barely different from rr45 considering the cost difference and Subju weapons being valid alternative.
Conq gear has been out 20 months, everyone who has been playing during that duration should have already 4-10 sets assuming they actually focusing even just a bit on gearing their "mains". [my sorc has about 3 sets(and must have passed over +10k medals over the year...), BW 2, WL 1, WE 1... and I slack a lot with other alts having partially full sets or just not even bothering]

Giving the ability for warbands to leave RvR lake and do Scs... doesn't really help when it comes to ensuring your side has oRvR population left out in the lakes.

Another entirely different issue is that Order just doesn't have a lot of warband-friendly classes. Every non-BW in your WB is a lost opportunity cost when it comes to minmaxing dps output and the possible utility picks hardly make a dent in destros frontline or wide spread-snare-disperse-surround-bomb tactics. Order has extremely limited CC utility compared to Destro and nothing like Maras with their AoE interrupts, Disorient, AoE KD, absurdly good morale drain (completely making any 15pts M4 spec Order might run - null and void)

If you want to enjoy game as a warbandplayer, play on Destro.
If you like smallscale, Order is pretty fine with classes like ASW or WL or WH or SL who all do good job there.

[davispeed]

In NA Prime, the faction balance has become overwhelmingly Destruction heavy. There are many factors to this; Order lack of viable warband specs for classes, lack of warband utility, etc.

plz stop.. just stop this non sense already Like seriously.

[Luuca]

You still have issues such as;

Spec, a spec that works for oRvR is not best spec for SC, good luck respeccing where exactly? every time you join a sc? cannot, so you suffer for it.
SC rewards, Dominator gear goes to the trashpile if not playing a class that is either offtank or dps healer or gets best stat combo from running some kinda of Dom-Conq-BL combo, so a lot of classes will just ignore the sc gear. rr39 weap is barely different from rr45 considering the cost difference and Subju weapons being valid alternative.
Conq gear has been out 20 months, everyone who has been playing during that duration should have already 4-10 sets assuming they actually focusing even just a bit on gearing their "mains". [my sorc has about 3 sets(and must have passed over +10k medals over the year...), BW 2, WL 1, WE 1... and I slack a lot with other alts having partially full sets or just not even bothering]

Giving the ability for warbands to leave RvR lake and do Scs... doesn't really help when it comes to ensuring your side has oRvR population left out in the lakes.

Another entirely different issue is that Order just doesn't have a lot of warband-friendly classes. Every non-BW in your WB is a lost opportunity cost when it comes to minmaxing dps output and the possible utility picks hardly make a dent in destros frontline or wide spread-snare-disperse-surround-bomb tactics. Order has extremely limited CC utility compared to Destro and nothing like Maras with their AoE interrupts, Disorient, AoE KD, absurdly good morale drain (completely making any 15pts M4 spec Order might run - null and void)

If you want to enjoy game as a warbandplayer, play on Destro.
If you like smallscale, Order is pretty fine with classes like ASW or WL or WH or SL who all do good job there.

I agree completely. What I am advising is making lemonade out of lemons. Get the 6-mans to cooperate and run in WB. Let them play whatever spec they want. Whil in the lake, they can coordinate easier with other 6-mans, etc. Stopgap measure

[Sulorie]

What I experience is the total opposite on destro side. Almost no chance to build groups outside of guilds or alliances and too many warbands.

[Onemantankwall]

Why should the devs beg you to play the game how it was intented from live launch? Silly 6 man speed bump