[Review] [Mara] Gift of monstrosity

[jonyjones]

Spoiler:

server peak pop was 1400, You ask people their point of view but, dev already nerferd synergy that were too strong patch after patch since begining beside new content that what we expect. But no matter how optimized a grp is, everyone can put offensive or defensive gear and set tactic. Because creator of game know the class and that this abitlity is countered by this one,since they made it, so they can see when complain is from a noob that dont have taken the time to master his classe. But when you listen to random *** how do you know that ppl dont just have read optimized tuto, and follow lead, brain dead, spamming their button, and just whine because they dont know the counter, so they accuse a classe or some **** else, and ask for nerf. But do you really think creator of game have missed such defensive stat on mostro spec? Truth is monstro maybe worth dps spec does is balance racial armor, grp heal of ingee, etc and im not trying to arguing one way, everyone have heard how mostro have already been nerfed on official, and not their equivalent WL dont have aoe tree so you got to nerf squig even more according to how you do. But that listening to player whine on each specific class separately lead to eternal adjsutement because to balance you got to do it all at once.

Just because you spoiler yourself doesn't mean you can ramble nothingness. I wasn't going to warn you until I saw the homophobic slur in your post. User warned for that reason. - Dan

[NoRKaLKiLLa]

5 piece BL, 4 piece Conq, zero armor talismans
2869 armor = 65.2% Physical Damage reduction

After White lion Force Opportunity (-1400 armor)*
1469 armor = 33.4% Physical Damage reduction

Then when hit with a Demolishing strike
413 armor = 9.3% Physical Damage Reduction

Full Dominator, zero armor Talismans
3604 armor = 81.9% (actually capped at 75% though, but useful to know)

After White lion Force Opportunity (-1400 armor)*
2204 armor = 55% Physical Damage Reduction

Then when hit with a Demolishing strike
413 armor = 26.1% Physical Damage Reduction

*Force opportunity example is only with 10 pts into tree, so it could be higher

Why did I do this math?

If you look at the values you'll see that with an armor debuff applied to a Single target DPS marauder (which will be the vast majority of marauders) which is specced to actually do DPS, they'll still be able to survive a few GCDs without a guard and immediate heals, but add on a morale armor debuff and/or account for enemy players armor pen and you're looking at a dead Marauder unless he quickly swaps to GoM, trading any and all outgoing pressure for a panic button.

What makes this class fun and tricky to play well, is that to maximize its efficiency, you have to be moving into the mutation which best fits the situation, being constantly aware of what mutation you should have out to utilize the most effective ability.

By reducing the value of armor pen shrug off, you'd dumb the class down by making GoM completely useless to swap or spec into- except to bring a weak damage output, morale and AP-draining warband slave. If anything, perhaps the chance to drain morale and AP should not be on 100% of the time you crit, but perhaps 50% chance to remove AP/Morale when hit with a crit, as it would force warband zergers to stop playing like they're a walking Aura, and more so like a cognizant actor in a dynamic battlefield.

[adamthelc]

I think most people are aware of how it's used and what it does. The question is whether or not it's too strong, is it needed. Everyone can get debuffed, that's not a problem exclusive to marauders. But not ever MDPS can change stances for some decent survivability.

Slayers/Choppas give up 50% damage just to get back to a marauders baseline defense. So the fact that Marauders have to give up damage to get even more survivability isnt that bad.

I like the fact that good usage separates good players from average players, but Marauders already bring utility and damage that isnt overshadowed by WLs, Slayers or Choppas. Do they NEED the extra survivability options too.

I buy into not balancing around 1v1 as long as the thing that makes you strong in 1v1 is needed for balance in group play. I think you should balance 1v1 if it isnt going to hurt a class in group play. That's just theoretical though, I really don't care about 1v1 personally.

My personal opinion on all of this is Marauder does seem to have every tool other MDPS have and then some. Is their damage low enough relative to other MDPS to justify that? I think probably not. I'm not sure this is the right way to tone that down, but maybe it is.

[dansari]

It's really not about the potential damage output. It's about: is a 100% armor pen reduction too strong?

[Dammy095]

Aoe maras would reroll aoe choppas then.
Its like a tradeofff , choppas has more damage but less survivability and maras are the other way, if you take away the survivability part then there barely reason to play it.
You guys overestimating this one.

[Toldavf]

Aoe maras would reroll aoe choppas then.
Its like a tradeofff , choppas has more damage but less survivability and maras are the other way, if you take away the survivability part then there barely reason to play it.
You guys overestimating this one.

Mara aoe is probably superior to choppers due to the higher potential crit rate in a dps build. Ini debuff+ FoF is allot of crit.

[Scaedugenga]

I'm not overly experienced in Mara - Mine being all of a whopping R21 or so - but it seems to me that a Mara's real power isn't in being a Monstro-Monster, but in their flexibility as Norkalkilla points out.

Yes, I think at it's base a Mara packs a whole lot into a convenient package, and yes - One on One a Monstro-Mara is going to be a pain in the backside to take down.

At lvl 21, my Monstro-Mara has comparatively few tricks it brings to the table. I expect that trend continues, as I see a while lot of chicken-arms but very few seal-clubs in ORvR. I see even fewer in dedicated SC groups.

Don't forget, while you're at it, that to get that survivability for a non-Monstro, you sacrifice at least 2 GCDs - assuming you get an immediate proc on GoM - and likely more, as if you're going to GoM in anything but a 1v1 it's because you're going to die, and you're hoping to buy yourself a little time for your backup to get there.

I know 2 GCDs doesn't sound like a whole lot, but one of the most common complaints I read about WL is how it only needs 3 GCDs to kill "anything." In 3 GCDs, an SM can buy his whole WB breathing room. In 2, a KotBS can buy his 6 man a victory. That Mara popping Monstro to survive just gave that WL, SM or KotBS all the time they need to turn the tide.

To me, that seems a fair trade off - Yes, Monstro IS a powerful tool, but if a Mara has to pull it out of their toolbox or die then they've just lost precious ground in the form of the one mechanic we don't recover.

Toss in that Monstro-Maras who cause nightmares are a very, very dedicated few - similar to the very rare, very very excellent Melee WP or SW - and I don't feel that GoM is a significant issue; It's still a very niche tool in an otherwise overly complete toolbox.

[Tesq]

5 piece BL, 4 piece Conq, zero armor talismans
2869 armor = 65.2% Physical Damage reduction

After White lion Force Opportunity (-1400 armor)*
1469 armor = 33.4% Physical Damage reduction

Then when hit with a Demolishing strike
413 armor = 9.3% Physical Damage Reduction

Full Dominator, zero armor Talismans
3604 armor = 81.9% (actually capped at 75% though, but useful to know)

After White lion Force Opportunity (-1400 armor)*
2204 armor = 55% Physical Damage Reduction

Then when hit with a Demolishing strike
413 armor = 26.1% Physical Damage Reduction

*Force opportunity example is only with 10 pts into tree, so it could be higher

Why did I do this math?

If you look at the values you'll see that with an armor debuff applied to a Single target DPS marauder (which will be the vast majority of marauders) which is specced to actually do DPS, they'll still be able to survive a few GCDs without a guard and immediate heals, but add on a morale armor debuff and/or account for enemy players armor pen and you're looking at a dead Marauder unless he quickly swaps to GoM, trading any and all outgoing pressure for a panic button.

What makes this class fun and tricky to play well, is that to maximize its efficiency, you have to be moving into the mutation which best fits the situation, being constantly aware of what mutation you should have out to utilize the most effective ability.

By reducing the value of armor pen shrug off, you'd dumb the class down by making GoM completely useless to swap or spec into- except to bring a weak damage output, morale and AP-draining warband slave. If anything, perhaps the chance to drain morale and AP should not be on 100% of the time you crit, but perhaps 50% chance to remove AP/Morale when hit with a crit, as it would force warband zergers to stop playing like they're a walking Aura, and more so like a cognizant actor in a dynamic battlefield.

You debunked youself when you called for no guard, why it should be able with no point invested to be able to survive without guard to a melee train? Still this is suppose to be a orvr thing not a small scale one, the build on mostro ia AOE.

Then again yes a panic button:
-easy to use
-unshatterable
-nor require spec
-scale with rank not with mastery
-cd is 5 sec due stance swap
- make useless in rvr 3-4 order classes.dmg, engi/wl/sw/ slayer and the option is everyone go bw
- or 100% active stance if aoe build

[diedrake]

I agree to a point, lol i thpught this whole time that the heal/ immune to armor pen was based on how many points is in that spec.

If devs are able to i could see 5% armor pen immunity at 0 point up to what 13 or 14 points for 100% armor pen immunity.

Also isnt armor pen immunity only when monstro arm procs the heal?

Sry been a min sense i played my mara competitively and not a lizard farm bot

[Tesq]

Aoe maras would reroll aoe choppas then.
Its like a tradeofff , choppas has more damage but less survivability and maras are the other way, if you take away the survivability part then there barely reason to play it.
You guys overestimating this one.

Higher crit
Higher aoe base dmg
Busrt vs no burst on channeling
Hit base 9 ppl vs 3
Ista m2 1200 dmg aoe
Moral stop
Moral drain
Aoe interrupt
Aos ini debuff
Aoe kd

The hell ya talking about man?