[Review] [Sorc] Gloom of Night

[daniilpb]

Also about Black Horror:
There is no much sense in this skill because of crazyass cast time and even debuff component is useless because any random WB Mara and SH with full conq can aoe debuff initiative much better. This debuff would be worthwhile only if it would be stackable - for ST version of this skill, for example, such a weak alternative to SW's Wrist Slash.

[Aurandilaz]

Referring to GoN? What would make it worthwhile at 5pt then?

Well, if we look at other classes what they get with 5pt investments Sorc could get something like:
-Rampage, undefendable attacks for 20 sec
-Pounce, it's awesome (because who would use Pounce as a defensive tool, haha. The thought is as silly as using Charge to run away from fight haha. )
-Healdebuff like BW (pretty sure no one specs it though, 30 sec CD and suffers from disrupts)
-Funnel Power like BW so you can do double check on every proc you have

...or not, and keep it as it is now, but make it 0 sec cast. Current main problem that it is 2 sec cast, and 2 sec standing still can be quite fatal, especially when the ability will do just meh damage, even if it passes initial disrupt check and the later dot disrupt checks.
The mid tree in general is in bad shape, because it has 0 ways to combat disrupt and dots facing initial and later checks when used. Whether 2 sec cast or 0 sec cast, double lottery on whether you might hurt something, well... you ain't gonna kill any organized enemy group that has access to Cleanse or HTL.

[daniilpb]

Referring to GoN? What would make it worthwhile at 5pt then?

Well, if we look at other classes what they get with 5pt investments Sorc could get something like:
-Rampage, undefendable attacks for 20 sec
-Pounce, it's awesome (because who would use Pounce as a defensive tool, haha. The thought is as silly as using Charge to run away from fight haha. )
-Healdebuff like BW (pretty sure no one specs it though, 30 sec CD and suffers from disrupts)
-Funnel Power like BW so you can do double check on every proc you have

...or not, and keep it as it is now, but make it 0 sec cast. Current main problem that it is 2 sec cast, and 2 sec standing still can be quite fatal, especially when the ability will do just meh damage, even if it passes initial disrupt check and the later dot disrupt checks.
The mid tree in general is in bad shape, because it has 0 ways to combat disrupt and dots facing initial and later checks when used. Whether 2 sec cast or 0 sec cast, double lottery on whether you might hurt something, well... you ain't gonna kill any organized enemy group that has access to Cleanse or HTL.

Spoiler:

Should admit that sorc has sh*t 5pt abilities, good 9pt and bad 13 pts abilities.

[Tosher85]

Moving to discussions. Currently, moving skills around between trees isn't possible, but could be brought up again after client control.

Personally, I think moving GoN to instant cast is good, but don't think the cooldown should be removed. Why would you want BH moved to single target? Does destro have an aoe init debuff besides this?

Like I said, it needs to be tested. If you leave the ability at 5 pt:
1.Make this an instant cast ability.
2.Perhaps a 5 seconds cooldown will be optimal and a slight damage increase won't hurt so much.

As for BH, this ability is not worth the spent point in the tree. And I just assumed that it was possible to swap GoN and BH with some changes. Now I know it's not gonna work until client control . Maybe there's a way you can think about changing this ability by reducing the casttime to 2 seconds or add DOT damage instead of reducing initiative. Anyways this is a separate topic for discussion.

[daniilpb]

Moving to discussions. Currently, moving skills around between trees isn't possible, but could be brought up again after client control.

Personally, I think moving GoN to instant cast is good, but don't think the cooldown should be removed. Why would you want BH moved to single target? Does destro have an aoe init debuff besides this?

Like I said, it needs to be tested. If you leave the ability at 5 pt:
1.Make this an instant cast ability.
2.Perhaps a 5 seconds cooldown will be optimal and a slight damage increase won't hurt so much.

As for BH, this ability is not worth the spent point in the tree. And I just assumed that it was possible to swap GoN and BH with some changes. Now I know it's not gonna work until client control . Maybe there's a way you can think about changing this ability by reducing the casttime to 2 seconds or add DOT damage instead of reducing initiative. Anyways this is a separate topic for discussion.

But again would it help both of these abilities?
This is not possible to increase damage of abilities via direct numbers currently.
Sorc already has one insta cast aoe dot and insta cast aoe skill so why does it need another two weaker versions even if their cast times will be changed. It looks like a change for the sake of change, bring two useless skills into rotation and act like it’s helping. But it’s crystal clear that it won’t really help.

[OldSerpenT]

Well, if we look at other classes what they get with 5pt investments Sorc could get something like:
-Rampage, undefendable attacks for 20 sec

That would be waaaaaaaaay too OP against slayer's 1st morale. Ofc, nobody use it. Never ever. Everyone use 7 seconds parry and dodge instead of 5 seconds of immortality. Also, nobody play slayers anyways.

Why not to make it instant without CD, but single target? Not gonna cause AoE overlapping and will stay within definition of DoT so kept in 2nd path will cause no questions.

I understand, that poor BWs have nothing of a value to counter glorious sorcs...
So why not to just mirror what BW has there? o_0 Just to nerf these dark elf bastards.

Black Horror is ok. You just don't know how to cook it.

[Tosher85]

Moving to discussions. Currently, moving skills around between trees isn't possible, but could be brought up again after client control.

Personally, I think moving GoN to instant cast is good, but don't think the cooldown should be removed. Why would you want BH moved to single target? Does destro have an aoe init debuff besides this?

Like I said, it needs to be tested. If you leave the ability at 5 pt:
1.Make this an instant cast ability.
2.Perhaps a 5 seconds cooldown will be optimal and a slight damage increase won't hurt so much.

As for BH, this ability is not worth the spent point in the tree. And I just assumed that it was possible to swap GoN and BH with some changes. Now I know it's not gonna work until client control . Maybe there's a way you can think about changing this ability by reducing the casttime to 2 seconds or add DOT damage instead of reducing initiative. Anyways this is a separate topic for discussion.

But again would it help both of these abilities?
This is not possible to increase damage of abilities via direct numbers currently.
Sorc already has one insta cast aoe dot and insta cast aoe skill so why does it need another two weaker versions even if their cast times will be changed. It looks like a change for the sake of change, bring two useless skills into rotation and act like it’s helping. But it’s crystal clear that it won’t really help.

Adding another ability to rotation increases the outgoing damage, I assume you understand that this is mainly about AoE rotation. Although this ability may be used in direct spec on the occasion.
I absolutely don't understand your logic. After all, if you make such a comparison, there are two abilities VoT and WoP. You say that VoT is not necessary, because there is a stronger version - WoP. Let's face it, this is a mistake.

[daniilpb]

Like I said, it needs to be tested. If you leave the ability at 5 pt:
1.Make this an instant cast ability.
2.Perhaps a 5 seconds cooldown will be optimal and a slight damage increase won't hurt so much.

As for BH, this ability is not worth the spent point in the tree. And I just assumed that it was possible to swap GoN and BH with some changes. Now I know it's not gonna work until client control . Maybe there's a way you can think about changing this ability by reducing the casttime to 2 seconds or add DOT damage instead of reducing initiative. Anyways this is a separate topic for discussion.

But again would it help both of these abilities?
This is not possible to increase damage of abilities via direct numbers currently.
Sorc already has one insta cast aoe dot and insta cast aoe skill so why does it need another two weaker versions even if their cast times will be changed. It looks like a change for the sake of change, bring two useless skills into rotation and act like it’s helping. But it’s crystal clear that it won’t really help.

Adding another ability to rotation increases the outgoing damage, I assume you understand that this is mainly about AoE rotation. Although this ability may be used in direct spec on the occasion.
I absolutely don't understand your logic. After all, if you make such a comparison, there are two abilities VoT and WoP. You say that VoT is not necessary, because there is a stronger version - WoP. Let's face it, this is a mistake.

Yes, you are doing mistake. I was talking about Infernal Wave as insta cast aoe and Ice Spikes as insta cast aoe dot. VoT and WoP are both hard hitting dots which should always be in rotation because you can perfom damage spike with them. Simple things. You will never perfom it with damage over time dots.
My comparison was following that logic: would you lose your GCD to apply GoN over Chill Wind, for example, which also debuffs resistance with tactic and has no cd in case of disrupt. Sure, you can throw **** tons of fluff dots and pray that it would change anything, look at aoe dot Engis/Magi, their dps is very noticeable, yeah? Especially, after disrupt changes.
Damage increase through dots is a pathetic way of argumentation.
Also, about aoe spec. Would you really go for second tree to get this fluff dot and give up on Impending Doom for quick mechanic build? Kek. Sure, let’s see those bigass Ice Spikes and GoN ticks.

[Tosher85]

But again would it help both of these abilities?
This is not possible to increase damage of abilities via direct numbers currently.
Sorc already has one insta cast aoe dot and insta cast aoe skill so why does it need another two weaker versions even if their cast times will be changed. It looks like a change for the sake of change, bring two useless skills into rotation and act like it’s helping. But it’s crystal clear that it won’t really help.

Adding another ability to rotation increases the outgoing damage, I assume you understand that this is mainly about AoE rotation. Although this ability may be used in direct spec on the occasion.
I absolutely don't understand your logic. After all, if you make such a comparison, there are two abilities VoT and WoP. You say that VoT is not necessary, because there is a stronger version - WoP. Let's face it, this is a mistake.

Yes, you are doing mistake. I was talking about Infernal Wave as insta cast aoe and Ice Spikes as insta cast aoe dot. VoT and WoP are both hard hitting dots which should always be in rotation because you can perfom damage spike with them. Simple things. You will never perfom it with damage over time dots.
My comparison was following that logic: would you lose your GCD to apply GoN over Chill Wind, for example, which also debuffs resistance with tactic and has no cd in case of disrupt. Sure, you can throw **** tons of fluff dots and pray that it would change anything, look at aoe dot Engis/Magi, their dps is very noticeable, yeah? Especially, after disrupt changes.
Damage increase through dots is a pathetic way of argumentation.
Also, about aoe spec. Would you really go for second tree to get this fluff dot and give up on Impending Doom for quick mechanic build? Kek. Sure, let’s see those bigass Ice Spikes and GoN ticks.

1. Everyone understands what kind of abilities you're talking about. You started comparing yourself, I only supported you in this.
2. Dont you know that there are different rotations?
3. Obviously u dont know DoT timings.
4. Noone said u should use GoN instead Chill Wind (Although this ability may be used in direct spec on the occasion)
5. "Fluff dots" things - another 370 dmg in your 6 seconds rotation...
6. Argumentation... hell no. I was explaining to u that 2 is better then 1. Is it pathetic for u or not doesn't matter to me.
7. About AOE spec. I'm sure that mechanic building with ID wont be better than u spend points in 2-nd tree for now and if there will be any changes.

Anyways i dont want to read another theorycrafting topic.
Faithfuly yours, Shoogababe.

[OldSerpenT]

I personally would say, just leave it be. Some people have no use neither for GoN or BH.
Again, you just don't know how to cook it.
Also it's personal choice - fast mechanics or DoTs + AoE. Both ways work depending on playstyle.
For direct GoN is much less beneficial as it can break detaunt quite unpleasantly. Other than that it's DoT that is just little over GCD to cast. 10 sec cooldown is same as WoP, so you don't lose much as you can't burst target any faster. Does spirit damage that sorc can debuff resists for.

Stop whining, deal with what you have.
Some people even find use for Shades of Death even it never crits.