WH vs. WE

[Orontes]

They both circle the same relative power levels but there are issues with the WE and the way it has no need to make use of its mechanics finishers.

Kiss procs happen on everything, bullets only on finishers
Holding onto Frenzy points has benefit, whereas accusations are to be spent

This makes spamming Agonizing wounds more efficient than using finishers.

The issue has been in place since mythic changed WE from a more melee centric version which had not only reasons to use finishers and also had to integrate kisses as part of a attack chain, to a "Witch hunter lite" where every finisher became ranged for no good reason and birthed the game of AW spam

Launch WE had issues to be sure, for example they had a tactic where every finisher put s 3s 75% armour debuff on enemy players, kinda nuts right especially as had aoe finishers? But they could have changed that to personal armour penetration for the player concerned.

Im currently making an entirely separate set of abilities where the WE will be moved back into its original intent with a combination of launch abilities, beta abilities and current amended where appropriate to bring it back into an engaging, varied and unique playstyle.

Now at launch kiss procs were dots with an effect but that played against you if you got multiple procs in a short space of time, kisses were also an attack so their was a problem with defending and preventing the mechanism being activated.



With this variant its a combination, its an attack that sets a buff which carries the effects, the buff applies even if the damage is defended and of course this comes without ranged finishers.

All post launcher that is.

Thank you for the information and the plans for WE as things move forward

[bughed]

Something i keep seeing..this isnt retail. During beta wh was better as was most of order (they were far to worried about everyone playing destro)
on release the main far and away order bias was with BW but they got nerfed to a resonible level but the idea remains that there is a total order bias..ehhh kinda but thats just because the devs dont have total freedom in modding things there fighting three dev teams worth of kludging and a lack of client side modding
mind you this isnt complaining just a reminder look at what there dealing with and remember order is op..so is destro....we are all playing the zero skill side

[Toldavf]

as i remember annihilator set for WE/WH on live had armor debuff proc for full set. why it was nerfed here?

because it didnt?

It was the conq set.

[roadkillrobin]

If you plan on goin back to old WE Kiss mechanic then i'd also sugest you bring back the tactics for them like Kiss of Doom.
Also noteble is that WH kisses does almoast twice the damage and you can chain them at 50% proc rate if you want to.

[roadkillrobin]

If you plan on goin back to old WE Kiss mechanic then i'd also sugest you bring back the tactics for them like Kiss of Doom.
Also noteble is that WH kisses does almoast twice the damage and you can chain them at 50% proc rate if you want to.

Nice try, Im well aware of how WH functions and your assertion is slanted to say the least, rather specific and not really viable.

and as said, thats not the old kiss mechanic, its a combination and variant and the proc potential capacity of WE is off the charts in comparison to WH, still, could always just tie them to finishers and drive another nail into proc meta which as you may have gathered, we are not fans of.

Whats slanted about it?
Tieing kisses to finnishers won't solve it coz you can just rotate AW+Puncture, just like you can rotate Torrment+Absolution for high proc rate. And if you do that without making finnishers and proc damage for WE better you create a massive power creep between WH and WE's. Aswell how is Witch Brew gonna function with Kisses procing of finnishers?

You may also remember that if Kiss of Agony for example was blocked/parried as it was on a shared CD with the other Kisses rendered the WE without able to get a single Kiss proc for 30 seconds.

And what are you asuimg i'm trying? I have no personal agenda, nor does I have a realm bias. I'm all in favor of a ballanced game and the only thing i really care about is classes being fun and feel good to play. Fun to play imo isn't creating exact mirrors, but having the same opportunies that you achive in differnt ways.

[roadkillrobin]

Nice try, Im well aware of how WH functions and your assertion is slanted to say the least, rather specific and not really viable.

and as said, thats not the old kiss mechanic, its a combination and variant and the proc potential capacity of WE is off the charts in comparison to WH, still, could always just tie them to finishers and drive another nail into proc meta which as you may have gathered, we are not fans of.

Whats slanted about it?
Tieing kisses to finnishers won't solve it coz you can just rotate AW+Puncture, just like you can rotate Torrment+Absolution for high proc rate. And if you do that without making finnishers and proc damage for WE better you create a massive power creep between WH and WE's. Aswell how is Witch Brew gonna function with Kisses procing of finnishers?

You may also remember that if Kiss of Agony for example was blocked/parried as it was on a shared CD with the other Kisses rendered the WE without able to get a single Kiss proc for 30 seconds.

And what are you asuimg i'm trying? I have no personal agenda, nor does I have a realm bias. I'm all in favor of a ballanced game and the only thing i really care about is classes being fun and feel good to play. Fun to play imo isn't creating exact mirrors, but having the same opportunies that you achive in differnt ways.

I presume you have an agenda because I assume you are not stupid but you know, I could easily be wrong here. A monstrously op tactic at 3 points that adds value to all builds but no synergy dedicated to the suffering tree isn't happening.

An allusion to abilities of the past isn't a wishlist for grossly broken items and the tactic you are referencing was designed in a phase when kiss procs were all dots, which puts a hugely different perspective on things.

Tldr:

Okey, lets be a bit transperant then instead. What kinda agenda do you presume I have? If i come across as someone with a biased agenda then I really wanna correct the way i'm phrasing myself.

I have no intention about Kiss of Doom other then I think it would be sutible if Kisses would be returned back to being an attack as it comes with a list of complications that you don't face with it being passive. KoD was changed when Kisses changed IIRC, not coz it was OP but because it would have been OP with the passive Kiss mechanic. Judgement and Suffering are build bassed on Finnishers and Bullets/Kisses so it made perfect sence that KoD were placed in that tree if you ask me.
I have no memory of Kisses ever being a DoT and my first ever class was a WE. But I could be wrong.

[roadkillrobin]

Spoiler:

I presume you have an agenda because I assume you are not stupid but you know, I could easily be wrong here. A monstrously op tactic at 3 points that adds value to all builds but no synergy dedicated to the suffering tree isn't happening.

An allusion to abilities of the past isn't a wishlist for grossly broken items and the tactic you are referencing was designed in a phase when kiss procs were all dots, which puts a hugely different perspective on things.

Tldr:

Okey, lets be a bit transperant then instead. What kinda agenda do you presume I have? If i come across as someone with a biased agenda then I really wanna correct the way i'm phrasing myself.

I have no intention about Kiss of Doom other then I think it would be sutible if Kisses would be returned back to being an attack as it comes with a list of complications that you don't face with it being passive. KoD was changed when Kisses changed IIRC, not coz it was OP but because it would have been OP with the passive Kiss mechanic. Judgement and Suffering are build bassed on Finnishers and Bullets/Kisses so it made perfect sence that KoD were placed in that tree if you ask me.
I have no memory of Kisses ever being a DoT and my first ever class was a WE. But I could be wrong.

You are wrong, they were a dot with over time effects

Don't bother trying to bait me, I'm not someone who will indulge you, at all.

I'm not trying to bait you but you keep presuming that I am, thats what i'm trying to settle here. Jeez.

Warning given - Torque

[roadkillrobin]

Looks like we were both right.

Kiss Of Betrayal

Spoiler:

You stab into your target for X DAMAGE, and their blood sticks to your corrupted blades. For the next X MINUTES, all of your attacks have a X% chance to deal an additional X DAMAGE to your target. The unnatural venom will absorb your victim's life force, reducing their Toughness by X for X SECONDS and increasing your Toughness by X.
You may only use a single Kiss at a time

Kiss Of Death

Spoiler:

You stab into your target for X DAMAGE, and their blood sticks to your corrupted blades. For the next X MINUTES, all of your attacks have a X% chance to deal an additional X DAMAGE over X SECONDS, and cause the victim to lose X action points over X SECONDS.
You may only use a single Kiss at a time.

Kiss Of Agony

Spoiler:

You stab into your target causing X DAMAGE over X SECONDS, and their blood sticks to your corrupted blades. For the next X MINUTES, all of your attacks have a X% chance to inflict agonizing pain on your target, reducing their movement speed by X% and causing X DAMAGE over X SECONDS.
You may only use a single Kiss at a time

http://warhammer.gamepressure.com/war_a ... _elves.asp

[bichka]

"Pierce Armor A powerful stab that slices through the target's defenses, dealing X DAMAGE to your target and ignoring all of their armor. If the target is Crippled, then their armor will also be reduced by X for X SECONDS. "

make WE great again . Who need this crappy WS while WE have to stack str/mp