[SW] No Quarter Tactic

Proposals which did not pass the two week review, were rejected internally, or were not able to be implemented.

Moderators: Balance Forum Mod, Developer, Moderator, Management, Game Master, Community Manager, Web Developer

User avatar
daniilpb
Posts: 591

[SW] No Quarter Tactic

Post#1 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:06 pm

Identify the issue
Underperformance of No Quarter tactic.

Explain why it's an issue
The tactic gives a nice upgrade to Eagle Eye skill but the drawback is still quite unacceptable. It hardly justifies a tactic slot (SW has to make really hard choices between tactics). It's related to two issues: high AP cost of the skill and general problems of stationarity.
Eagle Eye takes too much AP with the tactic thereby lowering any possible benefit it could give. Basically, it's not worth slotting in most cases. It is also related to the stationarity and LOS problems. Quite often you can't maintain good pressure with Eagle Eye before you run out of APs completely, because your targets are moving every second, hiding behind walls, rocks and other objects especially in urban environment. You just can't stand still long enough to apply noticeable pressure without losing your target.

Propose a viable solution to the problem:
- Reduce the AP cost of the tactic to 5-8 (below from 13)
- Eagle Eye cast will grant a 3 seconds, 25% movement speed boost to the player. Speed boost is removed upon using any ability.

This extra effect would serve several purposes.
It would implement quite new play style: hit-and-run. It may increase the popularity of the skill, the tactic and the stance.
Also, it can help with LOS problems because it would grant a nice opportunity to reposition quickly enough, so you won't lose much time chasing an enemy or repositioning yourself in chaotic environment.
Logically, it won't affect damage output significantly. Also, due to cast times SW will still have vulnerable windows. If SW would take use of movement speed bonus, it would give enemies time to react since the pressure will be relieved.
In general terms, it is some kind of QoL change.
Image
<Fusion>
Riphael - Black Guard.
Meridin - Sorcerer.
<FusionII>
Ripliel - Shadow Warrior.
Arfi - Swordmaster.
Very Serious Warhammer Online Montage

Ads
dansari
Posts: 2477

Re: [Shadow Warrior] No Quarter Tactic

Post#2 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:37 pm

Moving to discussions. Closed July 11.

Personally, this sounds way too good for a 3pt tactic. Enabling a movespeed bonus plus decreasing the AP cost would make an already highly mobile class more mobile. It also doesn't encourage stance swapping, which I think we should work towards. This would basically be the new Skirm/Scout 40/40 build which can pump a lot of consistent damage and would be hard to pin down:

RoR SW

I do agree that No Quarter could use further AP reduction to be worthwhile, and I do like the movespeed bonus idea, but feel that it is better suited to higher in the tree, like instead taking over Guerilla Training. This would give some much needed mobility to Scout SWs for heavy investment. So, the Scout build would look something like this:

RoR SW rr50 capable of consistent damage like Skirmish SWs, though probably still needs a bit more love to be fully functional seeing as it has very little group utility.

TL;DR I like decreasing the AP penalty on No Quarter down to 5 but feel the movespeed belongs on Guerilla Training.

Edit: We should discuss under the assumption that whatever gets changed with No Quarter would also get changed with the Squig Herder tactic mirror, Aimin Quickly.
<Salt Factory>

Dansarann / SW
Dansaram / RP
Dansaren / BW
Dansarii / Eng
Dansari / WH

User avatar
lefze
Suspended
Posts: 861

Re: [Shadow Warrior] No Quarter Tactic

Post#3 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:00 pm

dansari wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:37 pm
Moving to discussions. Closed July 11.

Personally, this sounds way too good for a 3pt tactic. Enabling a movespeed bonus plus decreasing the AP cost would make an already highly mobile class more mobile. It also doesn't encourage stance swapping, which I think we should work towards. This would basically be the new Skirm/Scout 40/40 build which can pump a lot of consistent damage and would be hard to pin down:

RoR SW

I do agree that No Quarter could use further AP reduction to be worthwhile, and I do like the movespeed bonus idea, but feel that it is better suited to higher in the tree, like instead taking over Guerilla Training. This would give some much needed mobility to Scout SWs for heavy investment. So, the Scout build would look something like this:

RoR SW rr50 capable of consistent damage like Skirmish SWs, though probably still needs a bit more love to be fully functional seeing as it has very little group utility.

TL;DR I like decreasing the AP penalty on No Quarter down to 5 but feel the movespeed belongs on Guerilla Training.

Edit: We should discuss under the assumption that whatever gets changed with No Quarter would also get changed with the Squig Herder tactic mirror, Aimin Quickly.
I agree the movement boost has no place here, AP is the issue with the tactic, and by extension the whole tree. And as such the reduction in AP penalty to 5 sounds good, even 0 penalty would be completely in line. However, I completely disagree on the mirroring to SH. No destro toon deserves help with AP seeing as ritual of innervation already grants access to way too much of the stuff than anyone should ever have.
Rip Phalanx

User avatar
charlysixb
Posts: 355

Re: [Shadow Warrior] No Quarter Tactic

Post#4 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:22 pm

lefze wrote:
I agree the movement boost has no place here, AP is the issue with the tactic, and by extension the whole tree. And as such the reduction in AP penalty to 5 sounds good, even 0 penalty would be completely in line. However, I completely disagree on the mirroring to SH. No destro toon deserves help with AP seeing as ritual of innervation already grants access to way too much of the stuff than anyone should ever have.
Spoiler:
can you explain me the difference between Ritual of Innervation and Master Rune of Fury please?
PD: Sorry 8) just read well description of both ( i though they were the same ) one triggers with each attack and other with each ability
Peckman And Chifli's


Gobboz Night Fever

dansari
Posts: 2477

Re: [Shadow Warrior] No Quarter Tactic

Post#5 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:59 pm

lefze wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:00 pm
However, I completely disagree on the mirroring to SH. No destro toon deserves help with AP seeing as ritual of innervation already grants access to way too much of the stuff than anyone should ever have.
I disagree. The tactics are exact mirrors, so they should be changed in that way. Innervation ritual is its own issue.
<Salt Factory>

Dansarann / SW
Dansaram / RP
Dansaren / BW
Dansarii / Eng
Dansari / WH

User avatar
lefze
Suspended
Posts: 861

Re: [Shadow Warrior] No Quarter Tactic

Post#6 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:24 pm

dansari wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:59 pm
lefze wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:00 pm
However, I completely disagree on the mirroring to SH. No destro toon deserves help with AP seeing as ritual of innervation already grants access to way too much of the stuff than anyone should ever have.
I disagree. The tactics are exact mirrors, so they should be changed in that way. Innervation ritual is its own issue.
SH can function perfectly well with the tactic already, while SW can't. The tactics might be exact mirrors yes, but if it's detrimental to balance that should not be taken into consideration. What you said basically means that the tactic can't really be changed, because SH does not need or deserve the buff. Or rather it could, but one of the classes benefiting from it would basically be able to spam the ability tied to the tactic even more freely (indefinitely?) and the other will be able to cast it for a few seconds longer than the current form. And as I understand the ritual isn't actually viewed as an issue by the team, but you can't really balance classes in a vacuum anyways and as such it is relevant to the discussion.
Rip Phalanx

User avatar
daniilpb
Posts: 591

Re: [SW] No Quarter Tactic [Close Date July 11]

Post#7 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 5:59 pm

Just want to emphasize:
1) Speed boost will always require 1 second cast of certain ability while being stationary;
2) Speed boost will fade away upon any ability use;
3) It works only 3 seconds (no sense lowering it imo but feel free to reduce time if you wish so).
Image
<Fusion>
Riphael - Black Guard.
Meridin - Sorcerer.
<FusionII>
Ripliel - Shadow Warrior.
Arfi - Swordmaster.
Very Serious Warhammer Online Montage

dansari
Posts: 2477

Re: [SW] No Quarter Tactic

Post#8 » Fri Sep 28, 2018 2:02 pm

Rejecting for same reason on other Scout proposals: on our radar, think tank coming soon, larger discussion than this one tactic.
<Salt Factory>

Dansarann / SW
Dansaram / RP
Dansaren / BW
Dansarii / Eng
Dansari / WH

Ads

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest