If I heal someone outside my group

[roadkillrobin]

Question is, why are kills being rewarded at all? I mean it's not individual kills that progress you towards campain victory. It's zone/map/objective controll. The fact is that kills being rewarding at all is actually what creates the inequity and is the root of this problem. If you would remove kill rewards every archetype would need to group up and protect/play objectives to get rewards and no class would actually earn more then the other just for being better at AoE's for example.

Martys Blessing being brought up makes me smile a bit coz the out of group healing renown is actually the only reason this skill was any usefull post AoE nerf.
It just sits there being complete trash, highest up in the Mastery tree, like some kinda dissapointing reward to look forward to. I think wasting a Mastery skill slot that high up is by far much worse then allowing a class to farm some extra RR.

[darude83]

It's pretty fine how it works now. Why should you get renown when you dont want to party up?
There is always a party or a warband with room for healers and tanks.

When i read the posts above i just think people want to follow good partys or warbands and throw some random hots to leech renown.
For that, you get some renown, and thats enough.

Because you do already, you just have to do damage. So to follow your rhethoric, you just have to stick, do some damage and leech renown. What a nightmare. This kind of elitist talk is pretty off-putting. I play in "good parties" all the time, and i don't care for a second, if someone is following and helping, and getting some renown for it. Everyone should be able to participate in the fight as they want, and get the sufficient rewards.

None of the arguments against it seem particularly strong, except for the issue of people abusing it. Unless that can be solved, no rewards is probably the lesser of two evils.

As for "encouraging healers to group up", surely the same could be applied to everyone? A simple conditional: is player in group? No? Halve/quarter/multiply by 0 all rewards. For the record, I think this is an awful idea

There is a difference with tanks as well in that their helping other players usually involves at least hitting the enemy. As a healer who comes across a small scale fight, why bother healing your own side when you could add to the dps? The only reason to heal (from a completely selfish perspective) is to keep them alive if you don't think you'll be able to kill the other side on your own.

You are not discouraged to heal out of party, you are just not rewarded for it in a way you would like.

Those are two very different things.

That's just semantics really. The fact that you can get better rewards in another way is a form of discouragement.

Exactly.

[Hargrim]

Nope, it's stick vs carrot.

We prefer players grouping up, if you feel generous and want to improve your item rewards from campaign you can also heal out of party if your party doesn't need you at the moment.

[darude83]

Question is, why are kills being rewarded at all? I mean it's not individual kills that progress you towards campain victory. It's zone/map/objective controll. The fact is that kills being rewarding at all is actually what creates the inequity and is the root of this problem. If you would remove kill rewards every archetype would need to group up and protect/play objectives to get rewards and no class would actually earn more then the other just for being better at AoE's for example.

Martys Blessing being brought up makes me smile a bit coz the out of group healing renown is actually the only reason this skill was any usefull post AoE nerf.
It just sits there being complete trash, highest up in the Mastery tree, like some kinda dissapointing reward to look forward to. I think wasting a Mastery skill slot that high up is by far much worse then allowing a class to farm some extra RR.

It would be a lot more fair than the current solution. I think nobody would have a problem with the devs saying, that they haven't found a way to implement it without it being exploitable, but the stated reasons are hard to take serious. Finishing rvr quests too fast? Really?

[darude83]

Nope, it's stick vs carrot.

We prefer players grouping up, if you feel generous and want to improve your item rewards from campaign you can also heal out of party if your party doesn't need you at the moment.

Sorry have to correct you again here, what you mean is "we prefer healers and tanks grouping up" because damage dealers do just fine soloing. You can farm 10 conqueror medals with 3 lileath arrows, along with signifcant RPs.

[Hargrim]

Ok, you won!

[darude83]

Ok, you won!

Not that hard when it is that obvious. All archetypes participate in the fight, of course all should get rewarded accordingly.

[Natherul]

Question is, why are kills being rewarded at all? I mean it's not individual kills that progress you towards campain victory. It's zone/map/objective controll. The fact is that kills being rewarding at all is actually what creates the inequity and is the root of this problem. If you would remove kill rewards every archetype would need to group up and protect/play objectives to get rewards and no class would actually earn more then the other just for being better at AoE's for example.

Martys Blessing being brought up makes me smile a bit coz the out of group healing renown is actually the only reason this skill was any usefull post AoE nerf.
It just sits there being complete trash, highest up in the Mastery tree, like some kinda dissapointing reward to look forward to. I think wasting a Mastery skill slot that high up is by far much worse then allowing a class to farm some extra RR.

It would be a lot more fair than the current solution. I think nobody would have a problem with the devs saying, that they haven't found a way to implement it without it being exploitable, but the stated reasons are hard to take serious. Finishing rvr quests too fast? Really?

If you realise that some gear more or less can only be obtained by said quests yes. And the same reason could be applied for RR / xp gain and item drop. If it was given from healing it would cause the same imbalance I however left that out previously as we were talking specifically about the quest completion.

The only solution I have seen to this problem is what was posted here, removing all drops and gains from kills but that itself would be an issue as I can pretty much gaeantuee that it would not be liked and it does not work well with the plan laid out and design of the game.

Now I'm done with this thread, I simply posted to make some clarifications in the first place.

[darude83]

Weird, there seems to be a mechanic in place that rewards healers for out of group healing when it comes to bag drops, but no renown for them. Seems a little inconsistent. There also was a mechanic on live to reward healers, unfortunately it was exploitable, and the worst result was solo healers in scenarios, i get that you don't want that.

At least we are not talking about encouraging people to group up anymore, because this argument is null and void when you look at the damage dealers. It's just an unfortunate situation at the moment.

[peterthepan3]

At least we are not talking about encouraging people to group up anymore...

God forbid we do that.

The difference is a damage dealer will not be as resilient as, or have the survivability of, a tank or healer (in most cases), and so they will die more often than a healer or a tank would (most deaths in zones is always a 2h Choppa or solo Slayer).

You can't heal people to death. You can heal the damage dealers doing the killing, but I think throwing a few hots on as many DPS as you can see isn't as taxing as killing players as a solo DPS - but that's just me.

You always have the option of speccing DPS on your healer class if it is that much of a burden/if the idea of playing with a group so as to ensure a steady stream of medallions doesn't appeal to you. A DPS Shaman can net a lot of renown and medals with their AoE burst/DoTs killing pugs when they run away. I'm sure a Zealot charging into the battle throwing a few AoE dots will get his killing quest completed relatively quickly, too.