[Sorceress/Bright Wizzard] Dark Magic / Combustion Backlashs

[Stinkyweed]

Mez, it was intentionally done to you and only you, in order to even out the battlefield. I would suggest you refrain in the future from posting videos of how easy it is to bright wizard!

[Sulorie]

A number of sources in this thread successfully demonstrated that Explosion and Backlash damage vary with the amount of mechanic that you have.

The numbers and scaling broadly follow what Telen proposed.

It was a different thread. Where we talked about the number of comb/dmagic steps.

And yes, if it is 400 backlash damage, then it is too high. All sources in that other thread.

[Telen]

Yeah we worked it out from videos but still didn't have complete damage formula only for higher steps.

Right now the damage at high mechanic feels about where it was at live. In t1 before gheals bw/sorc was a class that did actually need thought put into. Soon as gheals come in you will pretty much ignore the mechanic again. Right now though they are great to play proper glass cannon as they were meant.

[Novgoroth]

Amount of Backlashes too high when you up your HP, so it confirms that the mechanism is actually wrong...

For now, i think the worst is the Frozen Touch/Flames of Rhuin:
you take the amount of the damage when you get a backlashes, and i happen many times on aoe, because FT/FoR hits one everybody (base on the skill, not on the target), so wrong mechanism again. And it is very deadly. I've been killed any times on RvR because on aoe i took more than 1K damage of total backlashes on 1 skill only ...

I'm really sorry to say that, but for now, Dark Magic/Combustion is bugged and Frozen Touch/Flames of Rhuin is completly broken ...

[Telen]

Thats a bug on the proc though as its classed as the buffers damage not the buffed players.
Damage does seem abit higher than live but Ive had no problem with it topping damage and dbs while melting down and healing up.

[Novgoroth]

Anyway, sometimes i'm in the game after a sc, i do nothing, but i take hits of my frozen touch (some random who has my buff), and i don't know why ! I can't event be a backlash, i'm inactive and with 0 DM
Honnestly, it becomes to be unplayable for sorc/bw

[Mez]

I see. The scaling is confirmed, but hitting for 25% of my health bar isn't the change that was needed. The damage bottom should have been made lower.


I'm just saying my current BW has 1595 health and is taking 400 backlash damage which is 25% of his health.

On live at RR100, the worst spike I could find is in this video where I took 892 damage at 100 dark magic. That is 9.87% health. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoEVynFblRU (@1:43)

My rr100 sorc had 8350 health in this video and took less (356) at the 60 mechanic level. 1 spell from full mechanic? That is less than current tier 1 toon at full. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMjlVeS4nuU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoEVynFblRU (2:53) rr100 sorc on live 8810 health ZERO combustion takes 89 backlash damage. That is 1.01% damage at zero combustion.

I think clearly the formula was a 1% getting worse to 10% of my health bar roughly after looking at footage. But it wasn't directly scaled, it was like 1% to 5% damage, and then jumped to 10% once at full mechanic (pink colored, 90+ or whatever it is).

Eating 320 damage at low combustion in tier 1, and a full 400 at full is really too high.

[Mez]

I didn't mind it before the change, I was eating 20% of my health bar which was twice the damage than it was on Live. I really was okay because it severly limited the caster without solid flows of heals and kept things in check somewhat. But 25%, I'm just sayn' it's a lot for other players. I dislike it, but will continue to play it. I just think for others it's going to cause common frustration and implayability.

I'm actually enjoying how challenging it is to heal too, I wish it was hard as balls on Live to target and point click heal, or scroll through friendly targets with key binds or assign group #'s to F keys or whatever you gotta do. I think it would have made pvp a lot better. Getting away from care bear habits, mods and nerfs is very healthy for a pvp community. A lot of bads who think they are good will be dissapointed they aren't automatically raking in numbers etc but they will still play.

It's too bad RoR can't keep stuff like nerf buttons, Calling, Aura, Buffhead 2 and all the other stuff outa the game that makes it ez mode, but that's ok. It's a restoration project I know. Good players can adapt.

I remember when Fourhundred/Elitist told me he had buffhead set up to alert him any time word of pain or chillwind got put on him. I just stopped dotting him and got more creative like gloom of night on a player near him and relied on some focused mind doom bolt spam to try and get the job done. So keep backlash as it is, I dont mind, I'm just reporting that it is probably on the brink of absurd for others.

[porkstar]

During the last days of live wasn't a backlash DMG REDUCTION actually being tested on the PTS? I'm just catching up on this but what is the major beef with backlash damage and why was it increased? Caster dmg/backlash isn't the problem, opponents failing to shut them down is the problem. They are squish for a reason. Also, if the ability setback mechanic was working, it would be more worthwhile to tweak that than backlash. I can't believe devs are tweaking/experimenting with working mechanics before fixing broken ones.

[Sulorie]

Yeah we worked it out from videos but still didn't have complete damage formula only for higher steps.

What we have are all steps, where the backlash damage changes.
We have the damage factors for the 3 highest steps starting at a base value. We could guess the lower steps.

All we need to know is the scaling of the base damage from rank 1 to 40, while we already know it for rank 39 and 40(45).


EDIT: Hah! Got values for lvl 11 and they are much lower than we have now. The known factors of x2 and x2.5 are once again verified.
MUCH MORE IMPORTANT, I got the data about the 11-30 step and it looks great. Fully in line with all other damage steps!

http://youtu.be/uQf0kDIcjLc?t=1m41s

11-30: 53 dmg (at 25 comb)
31-70: 106 dmg (at 55 comb)
71-90 : 212 dmg (at 85 comb)
91-100: 266 dmg (at 100 comb)

No idea about 1-10 mechanic but we can ignore it for now. Well, we could set it at x0,5.

The correct factors with the new base value at 11-30 are now: (x0,5) | x1 | x2 | x4 | x5




Conclusion: ~400 dmg at lvl12 is too high, when 266 dmg is the valid backlash damage for lvl 11.

We should assume a linear scaling between lvl 1 and 40.
We have low and high rank values, we could do the math now.