Melee/Assault SW

[Q73px]

Spoiler:

I remember testing WS and Wtyf (waz that yer finger) live to see if they actually stacked with other things and i do remember wtyf stacking with several things while WS didn't.

Iirc about WS the weaponskill and initiative buff didn't even stack with the Stances.

post nerf Waz that yer Finger didnt stack with anything either bc it was a global formula. So you either tested it pre nerf or messed something up. The stacking rule affected everything and literally nothing could stack besides the stat morale 4 Avatar of Sigmar which got abused to boost the drum bear buff to 80-100+ WS on a physical dps class.

Post with your real account, coward. No sockpuppets.

[daniilpb]

E2: Some say this is how it was on live but they are actually incorrect...

They are not only incorrect for the said reasons but also because literally nothing stacked on live. That's why you wouldn't see any tank using Demolishing Strike post nerf. Pre RR cap increase when they changed the armor debuff values, they also changed the stacking behavior so only the highest debuff would count. That happened because of the abundance of armor debuff stacking. Pre nerf all different types stacked: Weapon/Gear procs with abilities, with tactics and with morales. An IB on his own could debuff 3k armor without much effort by using a proc weapon, demolishing strike and stone breaker.

A stacking ini debuff is equally or even more gamebreaking and those defending it are either those trying to abuse it within their group or people playing said class. The argument of Althirion made me laugh the most because of its contradiction. Sure lad, from now on we all gonna ask our enemies nicely to not abuse their broken tactic. Nerfing it wouldn't be a viable solution, so rather ask your enemy to not abuse a gamebreaking tactic. All evidence for why this ability is broken was provided in the closed thread and the permanent outcry should be reason enough to finally provide a developer statement to clarify why this isn't gamebreaking in their mind and why it doesn't get nerfed! The recent SW changes have been enough to make the class viable even w/o the stacking behavior.

I dont get why one realm is forced to invest into gear, renown and mastery, while one class just hast to slot one core tactic.

I doubt that class is in any viable spot outside of double initiative debuff. RVR capabilities are nerfed to the ground, you won't ever see a wb with SWs now, only BWs and one or two Engis are welcome in organized play. Small scale? It was better to just get a WL+any other class, preferably WH or SL, dmg pressure will be insane along with mobility. I can't see it anywhere else than pug farming which is not an organized play which devs are balancing around (in theory). To sum up: RVR - ;Small scale - ;Pug farming + hell yeah. That's what I've seen before recent changes when class had a WB spot which is gone now.

[Q73px]

I doubt that class is in any viable spot outside of double initiative debuff. RVR capabilities are nerfed to the ground, you won't ever see a wb with SWs now, only BWs and one or two Engis are welcome in organized play. Small scale? It was better to just get a WL+any other class, preferably WH or SL, dmg pressure will be insane along with mobility. I can't see it anywhere else than pug farming which is not an organized play which devs are balancing around (in theory). To sum up: RVR - ;Small scale - ;Pug farming + hell yeah. That's what I've seen before recent changes when class had a WB spot which is gone now.

Unlike other classes a SW got 3 viable paths which all have their raison d'être. For smallscale oRvR a 1/3/2 setup is still viable and way safer to play than a 2/2/2. For that both trees, Skirmisher and Scout are more than just viable, bringing a permanent healdebuff, decent damage and a rkd. For SC's and 6vs6 the Assault spec is simply broken and would be viable even without a 200 ini debuff! I think those MSW participating successful it in can confirm. Idk why it's always you trying to defend that broken tactic but you must rely on it heavily to succeed in pvp. In fact a SW is viable in all kind of groups.

About your WB thingy: Spamming one button w/o a target was nothing but a horrific game design, so i'm thankful the devs "nerfed" it. Only because warband people rolled different classes for their ease of use it doesn't mean a class like the SW can't do work. Also that has nothing to do with the discussion about Wrist Slash being broken. Other classes like the WH or WL aren't a viable pick for a oRvR neither.

[roadkillrobin]

I remember testing WS and Wtyf (waz that yer finger) live to see if they actually stacked with other things and i do remember wtyf stacking with several things while WS didn't.

Iirc about WS the weaponskill and initiative buff didn't even stack with the Stances.

post nerf Waz that yer Finger didnt stack with anything either bc it was a global formula. So you either tested it pre nerf or messed something up. The stacking rule affected everything and literally nothing could stack besides the stat morale 4 Avatar of Sigmar which got abused to boost the drum bear buff to 80-100+ WS on a physical dps class.

I tested this back when it was controversial topic on live. It was about the same time as 1001db and Spout Carapace also stacked. The 30 sec version of 1001 db that is. Mountain Spirit used to stack on top of any armor buff aswell.

I also remember statements from developers that since wtyf required a crit while wp was automatic on a spammeble skill which also increased the stat for the SW it made sence that one were stacking and not the other one.
I was actually maining a SW at this time so it frustrated the hell out if me.

[Q73px]

I remember testing WS and Wtyf (waz that yer finger) live to see if they actually stacked with other things and i do remember wtyf stacking with several things while WS didn't.

Iirc about WS the weaponskill and initiative buff didn't even stack with the Stances.

post nerf Waz that yer Finger didnt stack with anything either bc it was a global formula. So you either tested it pre nerf or messed something up. The stacking rule affected everything and literally nothing could stack besides the stat morale 4 Avatar of Sigmar which got abused to boost the drum bear buff to 80-100+ WS on a physical dps class.

I tested this back when it was controversial topic on live. It was about the same time as 1001db and Spout Carapace also stacked. The 30 sec version of 1001 db that is. Mountain Spirit used to stack on top of any armor buff aswell.

I also remember statements from developers that since wtyf required a crit while wp was automatic on a spammeble skill which also increased the stat for the SW it made sence that one were stacking and not the other one.
I was actually maining a SW at this time so it frustrated the hell out if me.

it was pre nerf then. all that stuff got fixed with the global stacking rule. i can try to find the notes later on web.archive

[daniilpb]

I doubt that class is in any viable spot outside of double initiative debuff. RVR capabilities are nerfed to the ground, you won't ever see a wb with SWs now, only BWs and one or two Engis are welcome in organized play. Small scale? It was better to just get a WL+any other class, preferably WH or SL, dmg pressure will be insane along with mobility. I can't see it anywhere else than pug farming which is not an organized play which devs are balancing around (in theory). To sum up: RVR - ;Small scale - ;Pug farming + hell yeah. That's what I've seen before recent changes when class had a WB spot which is gone now.

Unlike other classes a SW got 3 viable paths which all have their raison d'être. For smallscale oRvR a 1/3/2 setup is still viable and way safer to play than a 2/2/2. For that both trees, Skirmisher and Scout are more than just viable, bringing a permanent healdebuff, decent damage and a rkd. For SC's and 6vs6 the Assault spec is simply broken and would be viable even without a 200 ini debuff! I think those MSW participating successful it in can confirm. Idk why it's always you trying to defend that broken tactic but you must rely on it heavily to succeed in pvp. In fact a SW is viable in all kind of groups.

About your WB thingy: Spamming one button w/o a target was nothing but a horrific game design, so i'm thankful the devs "nerfed" it. Only because warband people rolled different classes for their ease of use it doesn't mean a class like the SW can't do work. Also that has nothing to do with the discussion about Wrist Slash being broken. Other classes like the WH or WL aren't a viable pick for a oRvR neither.

Fake news. Calling Scout build viable is a whole new level of trolling, I see what you do here now. Everyone knows that it is NOT viable. 1/3/2 setup? You mean BW + WL + support SW setup for roaming? Yes, it is definitely worth playing but after recent dodge/dispurt changes it's even better to get double BW for this purpose since undefeatable fireballs.
RVR LA spamming was cancer I should agree but that was the only way for the class to be welcome in organized Warband (the whole RVR thing is moral bombing which is one-button gameplay actually).
Broken Assault SW pre-initiative stack? Against who? Pugs? Give me proofs please. Call me names of a group who were defeated by this. I can tell you the only one name of SW who was using this spec for small scale on a serious basis: Katjarn. But even after this initiative stacking his group was defeated TWICE by a group with a Sorc. Easy rock–paper–scissors counter but everyone prefer to ignore it since none plays Sorcs outside of brainless RVR zerging.

[Q73px]

after recent dodge/dispurt changes it's even better to get double BW for this purpose since undefeatable fireballs.

his group was defeated TWICE by a group with a Sorc.

A little bit contradictory, don't you think so? Or did i just miss the part when Sorc received a Burn Through mirror? You basically said the SW is horrific but Sorc is the g2g meta class when both have to deal with the exact same issue?

Either way this argument has nothing to do with the Wrist Slash problem!

Broken Assault SW pre-initiative stack?

I'm not quite sure when i called the Assault pre ini stack broken. I called him viable. The only thing i call out to be broken is the debuff. His base tooltip values combined with VoN, a 50% crit dmg/20% crit tactic, a solid kit of tactics to choose from, a spamable range healdebuff, the autoattack changes, the speed buff, self punt and almost tank armor values are enough indicators to call a class viable in a 2/2/2 setup. Relying on something cheesy as the broken ini debuff just shows the lack of interest of people to grapple with a certain class and its rework. Instead of trying to play the class on a high level, people just tend to spam one button again, like they did with LA.

I can tell you the only one name of SW who was using this spec for small scale on a serious basis: Katjarn. But even after this initiative stacking his group was defeated TWICE by a group with a Sorc.

Judging by the comments made on Twitch by their SM, they drop wrist slash as it's too cheesy. They don't want to win only because of abusing a certain tactic.
Yet i'm also sure, Jay will confirm that the debuff is broken as it was him coming "overconfident" to a 6vs6 against a dps he lost frequently to in the past by bringing a melee-heal wp. If Familjen would have used Wrist Slash in said 6vs6 against the low RR sorc, i'm fairly sure the frontline would have been dead within no time. Also they could have gone nuts on deft defender and counter the sorc/punt combo by renown.

[knowseverything]

after recent dodge/dispurt changes it's even better to get double BW for this purpose since undefeatable fireballs.

his group was defeated TWICE by a group with a Sorc.

A little bit contradictory, don't you think so? Or did i just miss the part when Sorc received a Burn Through mirror? You basically said the SW is horrific but Sorc is the g2g meta class when both have to deal with the exact same issue?

Either way this argument has nothing to do with the Wrist Slash problem!

Funny thing, it was the best sorc on this damn server they fought, but i guess this still will be contradictory to you

[daniilpb]

after recent dodge/dispurt changes it's even better to get double BW for this purpose since undefeatable fireballs.

his group was defeated TWICE by a group with a Sorc.

A little bit contradictory, don't you think so? Or did i just miss the part when Sorc received a Burn Through mirror? You basically said the SW is horrific but Sorc is the g2g meta class when both have to deal with the exact same issue?

Either way this argument has nothing to do with the Wrist Slash problem!

Broken Assault SW pre-initiative stack?

I'm not quite sure when i called the Assault pre ini stack broken. I called him viable. The only thing i call out to be broken is the debuff. His base tooltip values combined with VoN, a 50% crit dmg/20% crit tactic, a solid kit of tactics to choose from, a spamable range healdebuff, the autoattack changes, the speed buff, self punt and almost tank armor values are enough indicators to call a class viable in a 2/2/2 setup. Relying on something cheesy as the broken ini debuff just shows the lack of interest of people to grapple with a certain class and its rework. Instead of trying to play the class on a high level, people just tend to spam one button again, like they did with LA.

I can tell you the only one name of SW who was using this spec for small scale on a serious basis: Katjarn. But even after this initiative stacking his group was defeated TWICE by a group with a Sorc.

Judging by the comments made on Twitch by their SM, they drop wrist slash as it's too cheesy. They don't want to win only because of abusing a certain tactic.
Yet i'm also sure, Jay will confirm that the debuff is broken as it was him coming "overconfident" to a 6vs6 against a dps he lost frequently to in the past by bringing a melee-heal wp. If Familjen would have used Wrist Slash in said 6vs6 against the low RR sorc, i'm fairly sure the frontline would have been dead within no time. Also they could have gone nuts on deft defender and counter the sorc by renown.

Can't see the proof about not using WS in those two fights (he says we run w/o it sometimes and I know why: there wasn't cheesy or not decision because they can handle it with SM initiative debuff, Katjarn told me that). Maybe I'm blind or whatnot. And Jay can drop whatever he wants until he loses with durka-durka setup and demands to have a strong melee comp. I doubt Korze was a low-rr sorc also. You think deft defender would help against Sorc+Zealot comp? I can't be so sure even if disrupt rate would be high, you made Familjen look stupid by assuming that they went there "yolo who needs to spec according to your opponent" especially when Katjarn already has 3 sets of gear for different enemy setups. Furthermore, do you know how much toughness and wounds SW has? 200ish w/o and 280ish with the pot and less than 6k hp which is 4800 against BG and you think it's enough to get through Sorc's coordinated rotation with punts on tanks and stagger on healer. They could win once by chance but twice - meh

[Bozzax]

Are you assuming dest team didn’t stack ini like crazy for this event?