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Melee/Assault SW

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Valfaros
Posts: 260

Re: Melee/Assault SW

Post#91 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:13 am

Spoiler:
forsa wrote:
Valfaros wrote: Wrong Dok is 123
Same as all other races.. poor dok, might be devs error.
Valfaros wrote: Wrong again you play with SM so your at 200...
I was talking about SW personal ability to cut ini. You have BO for order SM so its -120 +120
Valfaros wrote: Cleanse 5s cd, Wrist Slash no cd, Lol that you mention a 30min cd cloak ...
BO can give CD increase for enemy, Choppa can buff cd reduce for party. So its 5s cd ST debuff vs no cd cleanse
forsa wrote: BG's specced mid tree has an incoming crit debuff cut by 1/2 on protector and self, also that core 20% enemy crit debuff - basically shutting conq boots+Subj+45rr down with one 5s cd ability that lasts 10s and thats ok and balanced.
Valfaros wrote: Wrong again if you get close to 0 ini this is useless
WOW. Your argument is invalid point! without stating anything. Thats huge.
forsa wrote: Use of Rare Fortune items in mix ( 2 set bonus +58 ini also high ini on items so you basically counter SW tactic), ini and tough talis instead of going full armor. Combined with zeal buff it negates SW in Conq with that nasty proc...
Valfaros wrote: Well this set is usless for some specs for example dps dok and dominator the set for it has 0 ini on it. Zeal buff is shatterable....
WUT ? You counter argument about Rare Fortune stating that Dok has no in on DOMINATOR. That is awsome.
Also zeal buff can be cowered with other buffs, and can be recast.
Are you serious...
You specifically said elfes have ~180 ini and justified with it that it's then easy to get high ini which it is not. How is that my mistake if you just tell something that is not true.

Next up you flame others for saying order has a 200 ini debuff and call them out it's "only" 180. Then you flame me because I corrected your mistake again and you say "Oh but I only ment sw only"
Well you know what others ment order in general so there is no need to flame them for it esp since it's a group game it makes a lot more sence to look at the overall picture then just what once class can do.

Next point:
Yeah because CD increasers can not get cleansed or what....Like really you argue with something and contradict yourself by doing so. Your counter is "oh just use cleanses lol" to a tactic without cd. Then you go on to well you could use cooldown increasers so he isn't able to spam it. Well boy first of all cd increasers have long cd's and can be cleansed by your site aswell and it's not like you can not cover your debuffs by various other debuffs furthermore your realm has cooldown increasers aswell so what's the point you are trying to make. Let's just assume a choppa specced cd decreaser. First of all it has poor uptime secondly it's not like healers have something else to do with this insane dmg meele sw and wl brings....

Next one:
Okay let me enlighten you what my point is since you seem to not know
Force of Fury is multiplicative and effectively useless if you stroll around with +100% ctbc postdebuff.
Next up:
Your argument was using other sets e.g. Rare Fortune set to get to higher ini values my argument is that some classes don't have a choice to what they have to wear. I don't know where this is hard to grasp. Your class shouldn't be useless just because you don't wear a specific set.

Then zeal debuff can be covererd rofl. Yeah this is your argument here but above you didn't wanted to know something that the wirst slash debuff can also be covered by other debuffs therefore making it impossible to cleanse in the first place.

The more I read your "argument" if we even want to call them that way the you the more it just sounds like "NAAAA don't take my OP skill away cause i'd suck then again".....don't bother answering me again cause I won't answer to your bs again.
daniilpb wrote: Wake up it's not the tactic! Tactic was always there and no one ever noticed it's existence. It wasn't even acceptable for a group to have a sw just for this tactic, it never gave any huge advantage. But Conq proc did that since everyone is whining now
Well the tactic was always there yes but before you would trait an insane buff against either a squishy sw in meele range or weak dmg from a assult sw. Now assult sw are more then capable of doing good dps while offering this insane buff. You know it kinda makes a difference.

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bloodi
Suspended
Posts: 1725

Re: Melee/Assault SW

Post#92 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:33 am

No one ever noticed its existance because the tactic behaving like a tactic stack wise, is a recent change, is not like people just didnt try it till 2 weeks ago.

The meta change is a response to a change in how the tactic behaves, thats all.

But again, i still cant see anyone giving a decent reason why its okay to have it as a spammable debuff now that it behaves that way.

If it was actually a burst cd, alright but when its just a "keep it up and wait for conq to proc and the guy explodes" is a joke.

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Darosh
Banned
Posts: 1197

Re: Melee/Assault SW

Post#93 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:25 am

rmpl wrote:
daniilpb wrote:
rmpl wrote: Again, if a single tactic on a single character dictates the entire meta then there's something wrong with the balance.
Wake up it's not the tactic! Tactic was always there and no one ever noticed it's existence. It wasn't even acceptable for a group to have a sw just for this tactic, it never gave any huge advantage. But Conq proc did that since everyone is whining now
Not entirely, I'm against any stackable initiative debuff that's only available to one side be it conq proc or not.
You should be upset about every kind of stacking initiative debuffs ~ the exclusivity isn't the issue. I see where you come from, tho'. Doesn't take much to imagine how tedious it is to being crit by everyone and their grandparents.

(Sidenote:)
Spoiler:
Didn't get to play for quite a while... I'd fancy footage of: Glass or full deftard Slayer [ST/FM for lulz, powered by pseudo-dps RP], mdps SW, KotBS, SM, RP [inc HD tactic], WP - So I have something to madly giggle at, atleast. The snippets of Dalgri's streams are hilarious.

Arteker616
Posts: 413

Re: Melee/Assault SW

Post#94 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:10 am

To be honest this whole debate about shadow warrior ini debuff stacking stuff remember me to when choppa could stack ini debufs hanks to his tactic with bork bellow combo .

it took mythic 1 week after qq on forums to obliterate choppa ini debuff tactic .
Is hillarious order is using the same arguments to defend it destru tried back then .To quote fallout, WAR, war never changes.

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rmpl
Posts: 766

Re: Melee/Assault SW

Post#95 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:08 am

Darosh wrote:You should be upset about every kind of stacking initiative debuffs ~ the exclusivity isn't the issue
Perhaps, but mirroring it would be the quickest way to show order players how broken it is by them being on the receiving end. Give a stackable ini debuff to choppa for a week and I'm sure some people would reconsider the arguments they have been using in this thread.

This cannot keep on going; either fix it or mirror it. Penril wouldn't allow it for that long.

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altharion1
Banned
Posts: 321

Re: Melee/Assault SW

Post#96 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:15 am

Spoiler:
As usual; mostly the typical forum hero, theorycrafting, pro math calculation, graph drawing, MS paint diagram scrublords in this thread, chatting about a meta they aren't involved in. I doubt any of you have even done a 6v6 and dont even have a chara above rr60. Most of you/your groups would die in 3 GCDs to a proper group anyway. The ini change just reduces that to 2 GCDs.

There is one good melee SW and if you ask him nicely they wont exploit the ini **** in 6v6. But tbh most of you will still lose anyway, as you fumble around for 10 seconds looking for your guard swap button.
tl;dr You all suck, so don't even bother with balancing.


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Cimba
Posts: 376

Re: Melee/Assault SW

Post#97 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:03 pm

In my humble opinion the formula for chance to be crit needs some rework. Change it to something linear and this whole mess gets a lot more transparent.

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Acidic
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Re: Melee/Assault SW

Post#98 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:44 pm

Don’t forget the recent fix/change to crit calculation highlighted the issue, going negative ini was previously not bad now it’s guaranteed crit.

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sogeou
Posts: 413

Re: Melee/Assault SW

Post#99 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:05 pm

People should focus on the wrong thing. The problem with the double stack is the smaller of the issues. With just the normal debuff your chance to be crit is still 70-80%.

Dabbart
Posts: 2251

Re: Melee/Assault SW

Post#100 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:52 pm

It’s almost as if people don’t cleanse or detaunt anymore... next you’ll be crying that the Zealot armor/resist debuff stacking(as it should, since it’s a Tactic) is game breaking....

Yea, being double ini debuffed really makes you more likely to be crit... it’s supposed to. Even with 100% crit rate, your group should be able to help you out, since you should see this coming. Guard, absorb bubbles, CC, morales, cleansing, etc... yknow, gameplay.
Azarael wrote: It's only a nerf if you're bad.

(see, I can shitpost too!)
Secrets wrote: Kindly adjust your attitude to actually help the community and do not impose your will on it. You aren't as powerful as you think.

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