A Full List of Moral Pumps and Moral Drains in the current Game.

[Docroc]

Yea, who cares.

Apparently salty people like yourself.

He is trying to inform and you guys are acting like children worried that your toys are about to be taken away.

Chill

[Fallenkezef]

Yea, who cares.

Worried someone will notice the invalance and address it?

[wargrimnir]

That's more than enough shitposting in the thread. Knock it off. If you don't have something to add, then don't bother.

[kmark101]

Excellent thread!

I'm a bit surprised, I did not know that the situation is this awful from order's perspective... I knew it's bad, but never thought this bad.

This clearly explain why no order WB can stand any chance against any organized destro WB on equal conditions.

[dansari]

This clearly explain why no order WB can stand any chance against any organized destro WB on equal conditions.

Not true in the slightest.. I would argue that organized order vs organized destro only depends on individual skill and how competently each player plays.

[kmark101]

This clearly explain why no order WB can stand any chance against any organized destro WB on equal conditions.

Not true in the slightest.. I would argue that organized order vs organized destro only depends on individual skill and how competently each player plays.

Not even the SLIGHTEST? So 6-8ppl spamming Raze on your warband while you don't even have m1 up is not affecting the warband play even the SLIGHTEST? Not even a TINY BIT? Pushing F2 is an "individual skill"?

[Aurandilaz]

Excellent thread!

I'm a bit surprised, I did not know that the situation is this awful from order's perspective... I knew it's bad, but never thought this bad.

This clearly explain why no order WB can stand any chance against any organized destro WB on equal conditions.

That's a lie. Get together 8 BWs, have them all run moral tactic, coordinate moral drop at 10 secs after fight starts, drop together 9600 moral damage over area, Destro wb crumbles. Stop running bad setups if you want best possible moral damage potential.
Destro WB with 8 chosen/blorc can do raze bomb for same damage number, except they need 20-30 seconds to warm up whereas BW is ready to go after 9 seconds.
Raze can be interrupted and you can take HP pot the same second you notice first raze ticks landing, or even worse, you can stagger the tanks, throw mines, aoe punt, do half a dozen things to INTERRUPT the raze which is channeled.

The melting power from 2 BWs is good, from 4 BWs the melting power is amazing. 6 BW is death sentence. 8 BWs is how you open the gates of hell.


And you really should not underestimate how fast AMs can help people reach damage morals. 1 AM can do boost 3 times in 6 seconds to help one ally to M2 readiness. Have 1 AM in each party of WB, you can get 8 tanks to M2 readiness in 12 secs.

That is 8+ seconds earlier than Destro can get their Raze bomb out.
9600 from BWs and 9600 more from tanks, out far earlier than Destro releases their morals.

Question is, why doesn't order properly utilize the tools available to get better moral bombs out than Destro?

[Osred]

I believe largely because it is more difficult to field a meta setup like above compared to Destro where they have an easier time because they have a larger pool of classes to choose from in all roles. Consequently they have a much easier time assembling warbands and more importantly, maintaining them for regular fights and warband nights. With the Order setup, they are required to save half the warband slots for only 2 classes. Making it much harder to field that many

[Scrilian]

Been there, done that.
I'll spoil it for now, since I'm not sure why am I even writing this stuff again >_<

Spoiler:

From the fights with phalanx a few months ago - usually it's enough for a two marauders to heavily disrupt BW bomb and nullify moral gains everyone else in the front lane - and get razed back around 10-15 seconds into the fight. (if we're talking same'ish numbers in head-to-head engagements)
Heck, a few times it got from M2 to almost 0 in the time it took for my BW to run in and try to dump. Or spend a 2min~ fight on KotbS and never see myself reach M1 and there are a few more issues that rise with running RnD bomb (i.e. it being very predictable and soft-countered by spreading out, etc.)

Anyway Pasco had it nicely summarized in the locked thread on how "easy" it is to interrupt, where two initial tics are enough to tip the favor and thank god there's no more Resolute Defense.
On top of that Zealot pumps himself to M2 very fast, raising his healing throughput immensely and I'd say enough to soft-counter slightly disrupted RnD bomb. Or use Winds of Insanity to make sure order doesn't have a chance to heal/res/raze.

AM pump is utter trash outside of keep sieges/pug-bashing/blasting warcamp with Burning Heads and a slow ST heal with big setback does nothing in a real direct fight. Besides AM in wb replaces either fast aoe heals/auras of WP or 25% inc healing blessing of RP, which is sort of crucial to counter -25% inc healing aura of chosen. (no such aura for order)
The more AMs you add, the less healing/damage you get with a slight upside of having more aoe-slowing-puddles.

I can go into more detail and probably will once I get back home - but essentially these are same-old talking points. There's even a now-declined proposal from Hao, where he addresses the points of interruption and ease of use of pump-raze (unless he was shitposting back then, still not sure >_<)

Maybe you'll see it this way if actually spend a bit more time playing order vs something relatively non-pug

[12point]

its about busting through funnels and one side having an easier go at it