About RVR Morales and Class Balance

[NoRKaLKiLLa]

I can only dream of seeing warbands clash upon each other, being an NA player. I feel like a peasant outside a roman gladiator Colosseum, unable to find the time off from cleaning the manure from the stables for pennies to feed my poor family, only to hear of these glorious bouts of bloody sportsmanship and tomfoolery. All I get in the lakes these days is an angsty fire clown flipping me the bird, silently mouthing "zaxxed" into the wind.

[Pacso]

What list? And I really don't understand what you're talking about.

Anyway, dealing with morales is not hard, especially raze bombs. Use a punt or stagger and gg, how hard is that for people to understand? If pugs continually want to give out free immunities, then cry about 'op destro morales', it's their fault. Also, I don't see people using sh m4 really, maybe once in a blue moon someone thinks of it, or when rocks goes to troll the lake with gobbo wb (and btw, bw has the exact same m4, and morale pump also ). If you don't know how to deal with it, it will be painful, but that doesn't mean you can't counter it.

Raze morale is 1200 dmg over 3 sec up to 65 feet. So an organised wb with 8 tanks, do 8*1200= 9600 dmg over 3 sec to 65 feet.

The "easy" counter as tank:

1. as a tank you recognize, that you hit by 8 raze (2400 dmg for the first tick) from 40 feet ~ maybe 1 sec reaction time.
2. You run into a knockback/stagger position (you need to be in 15-30 feet, so you have to run ~10 feet in 1 sec. Maybe you can do it. Meanwhile you will be hit by another 2400 dmg+the additional bomb from choppas/sorc. (lets say its only 1 gcd, and you hit by the 4 rdps only, for 500 dmg/dps ~2000 dmg. So far you've take ~6800 dmg. With 2 healers maybe you can get 2500 hp from their heal.
3. You use your aoe stagger/knockback and you hope that
a; no tanks will block it
b; it will hit sooner, than the 3rd tick of the raze bomb. (And the other members bomb, because you are now in melee range.)

Of course they dont have a shaman, who uses the sticky feet with 60% snare.
They dont have a magus who pulls, and knockdowns you for 3 sec.

The "easy" counter as an rdps.

1. you recognize that you hit by (8 raze= 2400 dmg for the first tick) ~ maybe 0,5 sec reaction time.)
2. Maybe you are lucky/high lvl/smart enough to spec for an aoe cc (strafing run, cleansing flare), and now u use it from 60-100 feet, and you hope that no one will block/dodge/disrupt it.
3. After u see that it didn't work, u run away.

The "easy" counter as a healer.
1. You are from 100 feet range from their wb.
2. You run.


The easiest counter.
1. You see the future, and now you can flank the enemy wb. (of course there is enough space for this, and no one notices your movements.)
2. They are starting a morale bomb, and you stagger/punt them .
3. U use /lol, and your groupmates cheer to you.


Sure, you can counter it.

[Pacso]

As this discussion might turn very fast into an destro vs Order discussion. We need some footwork in front.

A List of EVERY moral pump/drain in the current game.

Morale pump:
Order has 2 (1 self - BW, 1 to anyone= Archmage)
Destro has 6. (5 self = Chosen, Sorc, Zealot, Squig herder, Black Orc, 1 group = Shaman ).

Morale drain
Order has 3 (WH - single target with 25% chance proc - tactic, Swordmaster - single target - skill, KotBS - aoe - morale 4.)
Destro has 2 (Black Orc - single target - tactic, Marauder - aoe with 25% chance to proc, tactic)

[Collateral]

I can't really talk to you people anymore. You just don't want to listen. Running 10 ft in 1s? Sorry but what the actual **** are you talking about? Using st punts to punt tanks? Have you heard of an aoe punt before? Both sm and ib have them fyi. Engie has pull and am has snare also. Knight has stagger, engie also. What are you people on about? Do you know anything about the classes and mechanics? Healers getting hit by raze? Stand away from the damn bomb, there's your counter. No one, and I mean NO ONE uses raze from max range, EVER. It's stupid and pointless, your enemy can just walk out of it. How you can even think that's an argument I have no idea.

I'm just talking to walls here, not sure why I even bother. Yes it's true that destro can get morales a bit faster I'm not denying that, but keep in mind the natural morale gain is much slower than before. Order tanks can use morale jewelry, that's one way to help you a bit. The realms are not perfectly mirrored, accept that fact. But that deosn't mean both realms can't be equally effective in rvr.

[Glorian]

...I'm just talking to walls here, not sure why I even bother. Yes it's true that destro can get morales a bit faster I'm not denying that, but keep in mind the natural morale gain is much slower than before. ...

That is exactly the point. With lower moral gain rates +200 moral is a big thing.
Moral Gain rates seem to change on RoR sometimes. My last tests showed 15 per second. With Moral Gear you could bringt it to ~31ish.
So 200 moral flat bonus means Destro Raze is 5 seconds ready earlier. Or from Shaman with 150 moral it is 4 seconds earlier.

4 seconds are ages in RvR when you hit one Warband in the lakes with another.

[Glorian]

As this discussion might turn very fast into an destro vs Order discussion. We need some footwork in front.
A List of EVERY moral pump/drain in the current game.

Morale pump:
Order has 2 (1 self - BW, 1 to anyone= Archmage)
Destro has 6. (5 self = Chosen, Sorc, Zealot, Squig herder, Black Orc, 1 group = Shaman ).
Morale drain
Order has 3 (WH - single target with 25% chance proc - tactic, Swordmaster - single target - skill, KotBS - aoe - morale 4.)
Destro has 2 (Black Orc - single target - tactic, Marauder - aoe with 25% chance to proc, tactic)

You missed some:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25171&p=283619#p283619

[roadkillrobin]

Im gonna give a pro tip here about a dedicated AM morale pumper. Think outside the box a bit please.

Just coz AM primary role is a healer doesn't mean you have it take a healing spot in the warband. I would actually advice against it as you need to use a single target heal on a spammeble basis. You can even spec it for some dps utillity put a guard on it and have it deal some damage, AoE debuffs etz.

Replace a DPS spot.

Sugested spec:RoR.builders - Archmage

[footpatrol2]

Morale's have also changed by mythic's doing. Which I think was a mistake and a bad design direction.

I'll provide a comparison on a major reason on why Destined for Victory (chosen's block morale pump) exists. It is not the sole reason but it is probably 60% or more the reason.

AoR m/s was 36 m/s in full group. If you cared about morale gain you could have reached 60 m/s with a racial group and guild banner's in AoR at one time.

Assume your shooting for max morale gain. 60 m/s

Sprout carapace which is a beefy defensive morale cycle was a m3.
To reach m3 it takes 1800 morale.
At 60 m/s that is 1800/60 = 30 sec's.

Mountain spirit located on the runepriest which is nearly IDENTICAL to sprout carapace was a m2 and USED to last 30 sec's.
To reach m2 it takes 720 morale.
At 60 m/s that is 720/60 = 12 sec's.

Order has the CLEAR advantage here. If a chosen slots Destined for victory tactic... Assume he is constantly blocking his m/s is 60 (base) + (200/3) = 60 + 66.66 = 126.66 m/s
m3 = 1800 morale
Time it takes to get m3 at 126.66 m/s
1800/126.66 = 14.21 sec's.

So in order for Destro to reach their defensive morale cycle they have to have 1 of the chosen's slot destined for victory tactic. Order still had a 2 sec advantage.

You have to know your patch history to know why things are put where they are, otherwise your getting upset that your vehicle can't drive over hills when your vehicle is a boat.

[Aurandilaz]

poor Orderlings, if only they had massive 100 feet damage moral bombs...



and OP, maybe read patch notes, you will see that Chosen/Blorc moral pump was nerfed to 10 sec, 15/7, page 3 post 4 or 5.

Shaman pump is semishaite, at least AMs can focus on doing fast pumping (faster cast time procs hellooooooo + M2 FM) on priority targets instead of shaman handing out mediocre gain all over the party over 10 seconds until next EWG. (AM allows priority targets to reach fast M4 - Shaman spreads gain over party to help weaker classes get M2s out hopefully before fight is over)

Then when comparing BW and Sorc pumps which are identical, you need to look at what morals they are used. BW has M2 bomb moral Ruin and Destruction, centered around BW for good 1200 moral damage. With pump you can get it out in 9 seconds.
Sorc has M2 WindWovenShell, -20% incoming dmg reduction for party for 20 seconds, much wow.

And Sorcs cannot even use pump to troll around with BurningHeads simply because they have no BurningHead like moral lol. (to counter Burning Head that does 2400 on primary target and 1800 on around the target AND MORAL DRAINS, Sorc has "Soul Stealer" that does 1400 AoE around target (including target) and steals epic 125 AP, which is countered by one frigging AP pot.)

[altharion1]

Cool stories guys.

TUP are a joke guild