After playing Total War, Something I think is cool about this game...

[Toldavf]

As Chaos & Norsca tribes are little bit viking/tribal idea. So the basic system of men only go to war and women are left to raise children & do the stuff when men are raiding / attacking some other place for the gods.

One of the misconceptions about norse society is that they are always attacking places. The reality is that they show up and bully towns for what they need as its allot cheaper on their own resources.

[verterdegete]

Why exactly is the concept that 50% of the Human race can be strong, equal and worthy of leadership roles considered luberal anyway?

Isn't it common sense?

It is, from the perspective of a 21st century, Western, post modern, post industrial society. All of the lucrative, prestigious jobs are white collar desk jobs, where women can equally compete with men. Also, since the West has WMD's and highly sophisticated conventional weaponry, they can afford themselves to have small, professional (and often incompetent) armies. They don't rely on mass mobilization for their security, so they don't have to "bribe" men by giving them more prestige in the society.




In a barbaric society, where you have to steal from wilderness and other people to survive - things are different. You need to tame an unruly horse, hunt down a pack wolves that are attacking you sheep, defend your settlement from hostile neighbors, sack that walled, rich merchant city 100km from where you live... In those conditions, common sense is that men have to be big and brave, and women stay at home, giving birth to healthy boys. Common sense is that, if your son is short, you try to get him the tallest wife that you can find, so that your lineage gets physically bigger in the future.

That's how things work. There is no screwing around. Otherwise a rival tribe raids you, steals your cattle, steals your daughters, and then you're ****. You die hungry in the snow/desert/steppes.

[Fallenkezef]

Why exactly is the concept that 50% of the Human race can be strong, equal and worthy of leadership roles considered luberal anyway?

Isn't it common sense?

It is, from the perspective of a 21st century, Western, post modern, post industrial society. All of the lucrative, prestigious jobs are white collar desk jobs, where women can equally compete with men. Also, since the West has WMD's and highly sophisticated conventional weaponry, they can afford themselves to have small, professional (and often incompetent) armies. They don't rely on mass mobilization for their security, so they don't have to "bribe" men by giving them more prestige in the society.




In a barbaric society, where you have to steal from wilderness and other people to survive - things are different. You need to tame an unruly horse, hunt down a pack wolves that are attacking you sheep, defend your settlement from hostile neighbors, sack that walled, rich merchant city 100km from where you live... In those conditions, common sense is that men have to be big and brave, and women stay at home, giving birth to healthy boys. Common sense is that, if your son is short, you try to get him the tallest wife that you can find, so that your lineage gets physically bigger in the future.

That's how things work. There is no screwing around. Otherwise a rival tribe raids you, steals your cattle, steals your daughters, and then you're ****. You die hungry in the snow/desert/steppes.

Good thing pre-christian cultures did not share your vie

[normanis]

Even in Holly Book has very much patriachy, male is leader and wife is just servant. when ppl there counting Jesus famaly tree, they only use male ancestors .
there is also some womens in whole Holly Book byt they are realy rare. and mostly if u have daughter not all have names given, only males have names. its mean strong culture is under male arms, women can rule in house .
also word women is from saxon word wifine - what mean wife to male.
byt word famaly is taken from word female, its mean only women can breed . its is how it is.
also if talking about warhammer or 40k there are much female protagonists, because we live in liberalism times and if u make book series and there female is not same as male , feminists will go and unleash rage in streets. same is what happening about games of thrones the real men there are .... all dead or some kinda stupid or gay. and main force is females (lesbians or semi)
tirion lannister is my favorite
if u read old or 18century books than most famous are where men are main protagonists.

[bwdaWAR]

Why exactly is the concept that 50% of the Human race can be strong, equal and worthy of leadership roles considered luberal anyway?

Isn't it common sense?

It is, from the perspective of a 21st century, Western, post modern, post industrial society. All of the lucrative, prestigious jobs are white collar desk jobs, where women can equally compete with men. Also, since the West has WMD's and highly sophisticated conventional weaponry, they can afford themselves to have small, professional (and often incompetent) armies. They don't rely on mass mobilization for their security, so they don't have to "bribe" men by giving them more prestige in the society.




In a barbaric society, where you have to steal from wilderness and other people to survive - things are different. You need to tame an unruly horse, hunt down a pack wolves that are attacking you sheep, defend your settlement from hostile neighbors, sack that walled, rich merchant city 100km from where you live... In those conditions, common sense is that men have to be big and brave, and women stay at home, giving birth to healthy boys. Common sense is that, if your son is short, you try to get him the tallest wife that you can find, so that your lineage gets physically bigger in the future.

That's how things work. There is no screwing around. Otherwise a rival tribe raids you, steals your cattle, steals your daughters, and then you're ****. You die hungry in the snow/desert/steppes.

That is how things work in neckbeard fictionland, no doubt.
In real life, what most people did was WORK. Meaning, farming. Yes, even the so-called "barbarians", as farming is infinitely more efficient than hunter-gatherer living. And while it's an attractive idea to people of a certain type to see women as incompetent at anything physical, the truth was that of this farming work, and even the hunter-gatherer work, women took a very large part of; in ancient and medieval societies, things simply could not be any different, the work was required, as was that of children and even old people or pregnant women; everyone worked. Even among hunter-gatherer societies that's mostly true, since not all "hunting" involved wolves, mammoths or vicious man-eating dinosaurs. That "war" and "raiding"... yeah, it's vastly exaggerated and romanticised. Reality is and was far more boring than that. Fighting was usually limited to a warrior caste (middle class, a very small number from the whole society), yes, even among the oh-so-romantic "vikings". And when the barriers blurred between commoners and the warrior caste, so did it between men and women out of necessity as noted before, a woman commoner would protect her home and children as much as a male commoner; remember that the alternative was often death, death of her children or at least separation and slavery.
The whole "men do things, women stay at home" concept is a MODERN middle class thing, as a woman staying at home and doing some housework perhaps is a luxury only possible in such an enviroment, not among medieval or ancient common folk who barely owned anything in their tiny homes anyways and couldn't afford the loss of half of the population's work in food production.
The reason why women were not usually present as warriors had more to do with the harsh living conditions and primitive medicine of the times, that resulted in low life expectancy and very high child mortality. Simply put, human reproduction mostly still followed the animal strategy, meaning they had to create a lot of offspring to have a chance for some of them to survive to have children of their own. This meant that a woman would spend a lot of her life pregnant, which made her less mobile and more vulnerable to the various conditions of warfare. Malnutrition and disease, for example. Pre-modern military camps were ripe with disease and armies suffered significant losses to that. Not as glamorous as a famous last stand or vicious warriors in chainmail and horned helmets, but that's how things were.

[Toldavf]

Does it really matter what the gender of the protagonist in a story, so long as its good.

As for culture, humanity throughout history has been so very diverse in its behaviour it's not possible to nail it down in a single paragraph and say this is how it was,

We as a species had had everything from cannibal tribes to peaceful farmers.

[Fallenkezef]

Does it really matter what the gender of the protagonist in a story, so long as its good.

As for culture, humanity throughout history has been so very diverse in its behaviour it's not possible to nail it down in a single paragraph and say this is how it was,

We as a species had had everything from cannibal tribes to peaceful farmers.

Aye, I know allot if Fijians. They are quite open about thier ancestors habit if eating rival tribes to consume thier spirit and strength.
Lovely people with a beautiful language.

This thread should be moved to off-topic at this point.

[verterdegete]

That is how things work in neckbeard fictionland, no doubt.

Listen mate. I come from the part of the world where there was no electricity up to mid 20th century. My family got electricity in their house in 1983. Scythes were still being used, up until the 80's. We got nuclear families in the 50's. We still know from which tribes we come from, and our organized crime groups are based on tribal origins. Marrying a girl by abducting her was a common practice up until the 60's, when the state had to aggressively intervene. Automatic weapons were widely available after the WWII, so people were dying like flies, trying to abduct or defend girls.

My ancestors, from my grandfather and beyond, fought for the land with their neighbors. God knows how many people died in those family wars. Me and my grandfather are the only men in the last seven generations of my lineage, that didn't kill a person in an armed conflict. Grandad only did prison for aggravated assault though. Again, because of the land. My father's family house was burned down down twice in the last 150 years. My direct ancestor was impaled on a stake, just 150 years ago. We wiped out the family of a guy that was responsible. Drowned them in a river, collectively.

And that was my daddy's side of the family. There literally are folk songs about my mother's tribe's raiding endeavors, where they would raid villages and steal cattle. And it's not like 10 centuries ago. I'm talking about 100 years ago.


So no, you cant lecture me how backwards, patriarchal $hitholes of the world work.

[Fallenkezef]

That is how things work in neckbeard fictionland, no doubt.

Listen mate. I come from the part of the world where there was no electricity up to mid 20th century. My family got electricity in their house in 1983. Scythes were still being used, up until the 80's. We got nuclear families in the 50's. We still know from which tribes we come from, and our organized crime groups are based on tribal origins. Marrying a girl by abducting her was a common practice up until the 60's, when the state had to aggressively intervene. Automatic weapons were widely available after the WWII, so people were dying like flies, trying to abduct or defend girls.

My ancestors, from my grandfather and beyond, fought for the land with their neighbors. God knows how many people died in those family wars. Me and my grandfather are the only men in the last seven generations of my lineage, that didn't kill a person in an armed conflict. Grandad only did prison for aggravated assault though. Again, because of the land. My father's family house was burned down down twice in the last 150 years. My direct ancestor was impaled on a stake, just 150 years ago. We wiped out the family of a guy that was responsible. Drowned them in a river, collectively.

And that was my daddy's side of the family. There literally are folk songs about my mother's tribe's raiding endeavors, where they would raid villages and steal cattle. And it's not like 10 centuries ago. I'm talking about 100 years ago.


So no, you cant lecture me how backwards, patriarchal $hitholes of the world work.

What does your monotheistic 19th/20th culture have to do with ancient societies?

[bwdaWAR]

Spoiler:

That is how things work in neckbeard fictionland, no doubt.

Listen mate. I come from the part of the world where there was no electricity up to mid 20th century. My family got electricity in their house in 1983. Scythes were still being used, up until the 80's. We got nuclear families in the 50's. We still know from which tribes we come from, and our organized crime groups are based on tribal origins. Marrying a girl by abducting her was a common practice up until the 60's, when the state had to aggressively intervene. Automatic weapons were widely available after the WWII, so people were dying like flies, trying to abduct or defend girls.

My ancestors, from my grandfather and beyond, fought for the land with their neighbors. God knows how many people died in those family wars. Me and my grandfather are the only men in the last seven generations of my lineage, that didn't kill a person in an armed conflict. Grandad only did prison for aggravated assault though. Again, because of the land. My father's family house was burned down down twice in the last 150 years. My direct ancestor was impaled on a stake, just 150 years ago. We wiped out the family of a guy that was responsible. Drowned them in a river, collectively.

And that was my daddy's side of the family. There literally are folk songs about my mother's tribe's raiding endeavors, where they would raid villages and steal cattle. And it's not like 10 centuries ago. I'm talking about 100 years ago.


So no, you cant lecture me how backwards, patriarchal $hitholes of the world work.

Presuming, out of courtesy, that this internet claim isn't pure BS...
Backwards, patriarchal shitholes of today, that are still influenced by their stronger neighbours? Or correct me if I'm mistaken, but is this not an American company's game based on an English company's game that we're playing, while debating topics in English? I hope you won't claim that whatever place you're in wasn't influenced by the USA through books, movies, games and whatnot, and similarly the British Empire before that. Because that'd be a ridiculously stupid claim.
A backwards, patriarchal shithole that may not have had electricity but it still has and had modern guns apparently, and you better don't try to imply no modern-trained doctor is and was available in a few days walk distance - that is provided cars and bicycles aren't in the area either, which I would also find hard to believe.
"Modern" doesn't mean electricity, it doesn't mean the internet, it doesn't mean cars, it doesn't even mean the 20th century. It's a gradual change over the 17-18-19-20th centuries, depending where you are, that changed life from "superstitious" to "scientific", and yes I know there are still many regions on the planet where "superstitious" still applies, but that doesn't mean the total lack of access to modern technology. So unless you're in the absolute middle of nowhere wilderness of Africa, South America or East Asia (in which case I'll ask how the heck do you have an internet access to begin with), you can't claim to be completely free of the modern technology and conditions described there, that allowed the stay-at-home woman concept. Nor can you claim to be free of the cultural influence of the great powers' view on the same.
And while we're on the topic of guns. Can you explain to me what exactly prevents a woman from shooting another human being with a rifle that apparently doesn't prevent a man from doing so? I mean, apart from exactly those cultural issues referenced to above, the concept that a woman's role is to be a passive, stay-at-home mother and housewife while men are out doing things?
Because it seems to me that you are speaking of 18-19-20th century cultures and customs, not physical and practical limitations of the ancient and medieval times or, the original topic being, a fantasy game (with magic...)