peterthepan3 wrote:
Given relative ease of acquiring subjugator/conq now to how it was before, I'd wager so. Yet that would be a doubleedged sword: people would get what they need, go back to RvR with its plethora of goodies and rip sc.
Relative ease of aquiring? Those emblem Numbers are a HUGE deal, especially if you have no fixed pro group that will carry you.
Also your sentence: "PUG sc has already killed group pops"
You mean: Competetive 6v6 groups killed themselfes. There are simply not enough.
I dont want to sound rude, but for me it seems all you guys are enjoying to get fast wins and steamroll pugs.
Its not your guys main intention, but still a welcome "bonus". Thats why you seem to be so much against PuG SCs
You cant expect Random SC players with low gear to have fun playing punching bags for your kind of groups.
Those people need the lvl 39 weapon mostly and are happy to get out of this shitfest as fast as possible.
Its no rocket science to understand, that this seems to be the majority of players, and it seems for many its some sort of necessary evil due to: A) They need the lvl 39 Weapon, or B) their class is dependant on mercenary set instead of annihilator. No wonder they dont want to queue against your kind. Especially when 75% of the team is not even lvl 40
Yes, Conqueror/Subjugator/Genesis, with the new system, are easier to acquire than they were before.
No, did I mention competitive 6v6? That was dead a long time ago due to lack of endorsement and the fact that this game is a casual game, largely populated by people who intend on soloing in a group-based game. Nothing we can do about that, but it's a shame either way.
I don't enjoy steamrolling pugs, which is why 'my guys' will log off after 3/4 pug farm scs. A lot of other groups, however, are happy to do this sort of 'pvp', so I cannot speak for them.
I am so much against pug scenarios because: a) it detracts from the purpose of the game, i.e. playing as a group and with other people; b) it has had an adverse effect on group pops, this doesn't mean 6v6, it means general pops for groups because if there aren't many people queuing scenario and if pugs are queuing for pug-only sc, then group pops suffer as a result; c) linking in with point a, it dissuades people from ever bothering to practice synergy and/or form groups, but instead gives them a 'quick fix' where they can join and just hope to have a good chance of winning via RNG - as opposed to actively seeking to win.
'My kind' How dare I want to promote group-based play and shun solo/pug endorsement! Maybe level to 40 first, make friendly with some people (I'm sure you can do this, right? Or is even this mere task too arduous?), and then queue? Why one would ever queue as a sub-35 in trash gear baffles me. Maybe it warrants a 39 and under separate sc queue.
I understand your point of view, but as you said, the majority uses the SCs due to the need of items gated behind. And at lvl 31 the bolstering gets lowered and you are much weaker than with lvl 30 in RvR, therefore I personally run SCs in the mix. I still do some occassional mobgrinds or T4 quests but the xp are so low, that if you dont have some dedicated grindgroup, or the will of doing that, you have not many options. Because ordinary RvR nowadays tend to even have lower xp rewards than SC lol. But thats the way Devs want to design the level progress. I havent chosen so.
After levelling multiple toons, I would grind the last 10 levels in PvE but it is so awfully crappy, and you dont always get a dedicated healer/tank for you to level with. Because no sane person likes to kill tousands of mobs to get the levels
You cant blame under 40s for wanting to participate in SCs, and you also cant blame them, for trying to avoid to queue up against premades.
Look at the PuG groups, especially the under lvl 40, many of them dont even have a guild or are pretty new to the server and dont know many people.
Your standpoint seems fair, but still biased of someone who is here for decades and is completely integrated into the social structure and system of the server. Many people arent, so consider this.
I have no problem if there will be tests for SCs to change them, no matter in what direction. But as it is now, I personally do not enjoy it. Because when I have gear, I want to play vs decent opponents, but when I do not have gear, I want to grind the emblems, but not want to get roflstomped by the same teams over and over. There are certain tanks at destru side, when I see them, I already know the first 5 seconds it will be a loss, because of orders random bad group constellations. When I play destru, I have not met, that many premades. And if I met some, only one was really punishing, the rest was at least not that much of a steamroll for them.
I empathise with that actually, and feel that it is a bit jarring leveling up now.
Of course, you can't blame people for wanting to choose the route of least resistance. That's just human nature.
Maybe a separate 31-39 queue should be offered? Would help the lower levels gear up, they wouldn't get roflstomped by either rank 40 pug gods or rank 40 premades, and it would make for a much more enjoyable experience.
Most 'serious' premades do not derive any pleasure or satisfaction from farming pugs/low levels all day, seriously. It's boring.
peterthepan3 wrote:I empathise with that actually, and feel that it is a bit jarring leveling up now.
Of course, you can't blame people for wanting to choose the route of least resistance. That's just human nature.
Maybe a separate 31-39 queue should be offered? Would help the lower levels gear up, they wouldn't get roflstomped by either rank 40 pug gods or rank 40 premades, and it would make for a much more enjoyable experience.
Most 'serious' premades do not derive any pleasure or satisfaction from farming pugs/low levels all day, seriously. It's boring.
I think, that would be not a bad idea. Not sure about the overall queue numbers. But if they do this, we can at least expect fresh 40 with at least Anni/Merc + T4 or SC lvl 39 weapon. At that gearlevel, you can react and act quite a bit against well/better geared enemies. The gap between skill/gear is not so blatant. (Alone the missing tactic slot is huge sub 40) I think this would not hurt the server + also have positive effects for the tedious levelling process as it is now. (I remember around a year ago, I got huge exp ticks after hard battles in RvR, now after 12 hours you dont even get a level...) Only thing that could be affected, would be PuG waiting times than at 40, but thats not that big of a problem because most queue all SCs anyways (as far as I saw in the past)
I don't think we have the population to support such a system. Also, what if I want to play with my friend who is lower lvl and I'm 40? Say I wanna help him a bit and wanna duo. We wouldn't be able to do that, which is silly imo. He would be bound to play with lowbies, unless I also play a sub 40 character.
Collateral wrote:I don't think we have the population to support such a system. Also, what if I want to play with my friend who is lower lvl and I'm 40? Say I wanna help him a bit and wanna duo. We wouldn't be able to do that, which is silly imo. He would be bound to play with lowbies, unless I also play a sub 40 character.
Good points. Unfortunately, I think the 31-40 period is probably the most stress-inducing.
peterthepan3 wrote:Good points. Unfortunately, I think the 31-40 period is probably the most stress-inducing.
That's why I don't really play alts
The server simply lacks the population to support any kind of major change to the scenario tiers at this point I believe. And I think the devs feel the same. I would love for example, to have a rr based system, but again, it would only separate and already small population.
Ragefury
"Interesting. Please show me where I wrote that pugs should quit.
The only one moaning about gear and equipment is you.[/quote]"
I don't moan about new gear but gear is the main problem for unfair balance when 30's go against 40's !
Its easy to see this ,but your group organized philosophy harms the very reason why the PUG SC was created ,which was to separate group play for solo pugs!
7rere7 wrote:Ragefury
"Interesting. Please show me where I wrote that pugs should quit.
The only one moaning about gear and equipment is you
I don't moan about new gear but gear is the main problem for unfair balance when 30's go against 40's !
Its easy to see this ,but your group organized philosophy harms the very reason why the PUG SC was created ,which was to separate group play for solo pugs!
I also haven't spoken against more differential bracket separation, or pug SC or or or.
I've stated if you are tired of losing / a bad farm rate form at least a duo. You can q pug sc's with this grp size.
I dunno what to answer else besides l2read, l2argument, l2quote. I'm ignoring you. Cry at someone else.
"I also haven't spoken against more differential bracket separation, or pug SC or or or. "
Really?
"If this game needs some incentive for SCs it's for the premades and not for the solo ppl.
there are enough pugs and soloers around in this game. it's just not healthy to support such playstyle and reward "
Maybe not...but sounds like the ice is cracking.
"I dunno what to answer else besides l2read, l2argument, l2quote. I'm ignoring you. Cry at someone else.[/quote]"
CRY? .....im just trying to answer the question you asked of me, im sorry .
How dare I want to promote group-based play and shun solo/pug endorsement! Maybe level to 40 first, make friendly with some people (I'm sure you can do this, right? Or is even this mere task too arduous?), and then queue? Why one would ever queue as a sub-35 in trash gear baffles me. Maybe it warrants a 39 and under separate sc queue.
