[Review] [BW/Sorc] Mechanic

[fourhundred]

It's not about buff or nerf. Its about a mechanic that provides a ton of free stats and is as easy to maintain as keep using almost any offensive ability. and it is the overly simple nature of the mechanic that is under scrutiny here.

But it is interrelated, especially with something which has significant implications like changing a core mechanic. It's difficult to develop any good ideas without at least a broad understanding of what the end state should look like. What is the root cause of the problem and the intent? Is it to just to make the class more difficult to play, or make it stronger, or weaker?

Change just for the sake of change doesn't really make sense, so I'm sure there is another reason for the discussion. I'm just trying to find out what that reason is, so I, and everyone else, can more effectively contribute to the discussion.

[Haojin]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

He presented facts no one asked for (counters to BW/Sorc, which we are not discussing in this thread).

You died because you were focused, heal/wounds debuffed, your healers were probably CC'd, your tank possibly got punted away from you, you got pulled by a mara, etc. etc. etc. Blaming it all on backlash is either stupid or a lie.

Now propose something for the mechanic, or stay away from this thread.

i'm trying to understand why sorc/bw mechanic needs nerf with using our "balance forum sheet". they are completely fine as they are as i stated above. if people can't deal with it it's about "git gud" not career mechanic.

This is not about dealing with them. This is not about them being too strong/too weak. This is not about "git gud". This is about them having a mechanic with fantastic bonuses and ZERO drawbacks (as stated, backlash is not a drawback; period). So the idea is to make them play with their mechanic (and not "lolspamIceSpikes until 100 then forget it even exists"). This can be achieved with giving them an incentive to drop Dark Magic more often (either through buffs, a more serious drawback at 100, a combination of both, etc).

[wargrimnir]

It's not about buff or nerf. Its about a mechanic that provides a ton of free stats and is as easy to maintain as keep using almost any offensive ability. and it is the overly simple nature of the mechanic that is under scrutiny here.

But it is interrelated, especially with something which has significant implications like changing a core mechanic. It's difficult to develop any good ideas without at least a broad understanding of what the end state should look like. What is the root cause of the problem and the intent? Is it to just to make the class more difficult to play, or make it stronger, or weaker?

Change just for the sake of change doesn't really make sense, so I'm sure there is another reason for the discussion. I'm just trying to find out what that reason is, so I, and everyone else, can more effectively contribute to the discussion.

Consider the core mechanics of other classes. They each have several factors that the mechanic introduces meaningful choices, drawbacks, and benefits (aside from Kobs/CC of course which is also on the list). The BW/Sorc mechanic contains a whole lot of buff with little other interactions aside from a random tick of damage that has already been discussed. Suggestions here should be changing how that mechanic works with the class, very likely adding a drawback of some sort proportional to the benefit, and creating choices in how to manage the mechanic.

BW/Sorc is one of the few classes remaining that has a very flat mechanic. It goes up, you get tons of extra damage, and you get hit occasionally. We intend to expand on this somehow, and suggestions from players familiar with the class will help us find a path to do so without crippling it outright. We're not looking for a flat nerf, but different options that are more engaging than the current one.

[roadkillrobin]

Spoiler:

Should Zealot and RP be on that list aswell consider they have no functional mechanic at all?

Who cares? This thread is about BW/Sorc. This is your last warning.

[Tesq]

no brain is apply a crit dmg increase on them , the more you go high the more you can be susceptible to be crit etc couple that my previusy post.

basically kinda choppys/slayerys but the drop is not immediate, the malus will be worth in any situation and bw/sorc wont blow themself up if no healers ( and the malus would not be useless ifo there is no heal at all) and will scale regardless of the scale of the fight due just scaling proportionally with number of hits recived ( and due have a duration you could tno drop istantly the meccanic tryign to get benefith for no malus).

basically the trade is the opposite of what you gain, you gain crit then you are easier to crit (ying/yang). Malus values can be lower than benefith. Just force them into 100/100 easily then give them a way (with rewarding them somehow ) to drop the meccanic so the whole change will actuaslly do not nerf them but in fact will "force" them to deal with meccanic.

[Loreithian]

Just wanted to add my suggestions to the pool if you don't mind?

1) Instead of a heal debuff style debuff , why not a increase the chance to be crit hit? The second you get focused you will want to dump for obvious reasons. Would be work as a scaling debuff or a highish one for 100 only.

2) Instead of backlash as it is now, make it a % of the damage you do on explosion. Obviously more risky as you go up the scale due to bonus damage and crit chance you get. Stops the HoT only requirement to keep a BW up but still allows for bombing I feel.

Apologies if any suggested before but couldn't see them when quickly scanning back.

[freshour]

So total random idea (i've tried to read all the posts and saw some similar) but maybe a type of bonus upon blowing your combustion for x amount of seconds. Sorta like they cast some spells build up their mechanic, then they blow it off/get rid of it and have 10 seconds or so to get their abilities in for damage at the full potential? You could decrease the outright bonus if they sit at full mechanic or just have a multiplier to backlash for time spent at 100. But this might keep the class fluid and active rather than sitting at max mechanic and it would also incorporate more timing into the mix. Thoughts?

thoughts?

[Atropik]

This is not about dealing with them. This is not about them being too strong/too weak. This is not about "git gud". This is about them having a mechanic with fantastic bonuses and ZERO drawbacks (as stated, backlash is not a drawback; period). So the idea is to make them play with their mechanic (and not "lolspamIceSpikes until 100 then forget it even exists"). This can be achieved with giving them an incentive to drop Dark Magic more often (either through buffs, a more serious drawback at 100, a combination of both, etc).

How is it even possible - to talk about their mechanic and ignore the whole class composition? They have their fantastic machanic to compensate the fantastic weakness. It looks like some of you guys wake up in the morning, log down the sorc, read what DM sphere discription says and got completely shocked. I know, 100% crit dmg bonus sounds amazing, but on practice, comparing to other rdps classes bw/sorc is not so awesome as it have to be in someones eyes after reading the discription.

[lefze]

So total random idea (i've tried to read all the posts and saw some similar) but maybe a type of bonus upon blowing your combustion for x amount of seconds. Sorta like they cast some spells build up their mechanic, then they blow it off/get rid of it and have 10 seconds or so to get their abilities in for damage at the full potential? You could decrease the outright bonus if they sit at full mechanic or just have a multiplier to backlash for time spent at 100. But this might keep the class fluid and active rather than sitting at max mechanic and it would also incorporate more timing into the mix. Thoughts?

thoughts?

In my opinion something like this would be optimal, any change just adding debuffs and drawbacks to the mechanic would just be too uncreative and not really add anything new into the decisionmaking process of the class. If any changes are to be made they should definetly add optional windows where you can play around the mechanic for benefits, not a one button mandatory solution to get rid of the mechanic. This would make the class harder to play optimally and still not ruin the class utterly for small scale/solo players.

Tuning the kit more around the mechanic should be the obvious approach.

[freshour]

Tuning the kit more around the mechanic should be the obvious approach.

Yeah my thoughts exactly. But again this is just for brainstorming. I do like this idea as it can increase the drawbacks of sitting at 100% for instance if there is a multiplier added to sitting at full combust, say x2 damage after 10 seconds, x3 at 20 and so on, that way you can still sit at 100 for a bit, but when the moment comes you can dump combustion (you lose bonus from mechanic) but get an equal bonus or slightly less - added so during your rotation in those 10 seconds you can build up raw mechanic and add the bonus to it.

It would make timing pretty big. The better sorcs/bw's could use it to their benefit, and it would also add a drawback to going full on 100 combust all the time while not making the class less fun to play, just more engaging. I'm more than interested if anyone has any ideas of suggestions on this idea? Or maybe even drawbacks? (Tesq, now is your time to shine )