(Engineer) What more do you need!

[Glorian]

I would really like that undefendable tactic on Gunblast.
Like hitting Tanks!

[Forwe]

Pfft, instead of tanks blocking and dodging all your gunblasts, you'd be hitting them always... for whooping 80dmg on crit .

[Luuca]

my ONLY Gripe on engies is when they stand INSIDE their turret. It's **** retarded to try and target them. Should not be allowed.

Well identical to target a magus on a deamon.
Back in live when you summoned your Turret it appeared some feet in front of you.
I can only guess that there is no code to let it be in RoR too.

I disagree. Having said that, I have never targeted a Magus in anger, so you could be correct. I would assume that targeting a magus standing "in" his daemon would be like having to click the upper portion of a postern door to get by an enemy player. Without that upper portion, or using your camera angle to assist, you would only be able to click on the player. The magus, on his disk, is taller than his daemon, and therefore can be clicked on his upper portion for targeting. Add-ons also assist with this if you get the target marked prior to deployment of the daemon or turret, but that's not always possible and not every player uses add-ons.

The unfair advantage the dwarves have is that they are approximately the same height as their deployed device, not allowing any upper region to click on for targeting. "Tab Target" you might say. Well the issue with that is tab-targeting picks up the nearest enemy and cycles through them. Many times, as a tank, I am targeting enemy players up to 100 yards away (especially RDPS) to taunt them for damage reduction or in extreme cases of multiple engineers in a cluster, using my M3 to reduce their damage as a group. After all, that's what I do as a Tank, Guard people to soak damage, Find ways to mitigate damage for the 6-man, and Die.

By allowing the engineers to carry with them this deployable screen, you effectively negate some or all of my ranged mitigation abilities while at the same time increasing the survivability of the RDPs by a good margin.

I know this will not change in this forum post, but it's like any nuance in a game that can be exploited without being called an exploit - it will be used and abused until the powers that be take a stand. I certainly do not have the power to change it and thus, I have to live with it. Let me ask you this; If it is not a distinct advantage for the engineer class to be able to "hide in plain sight" inside their class mechanic "pet" why do so many of them (read as All of them) take this stance/position in-game?

A simple fix would be to force the collision rules of RvR onto pets for friendly players only. In this way, friendly players would have to go around the pet, but enemies could go through it - saving the agony of multiple stacks of flame turrets or daemons inside the outer wall door tunnel at keeps that would exist if collision for enemies existed.

[Gerv]

my ONLY Gripe on engies is when they stand INSIDE their turret. It's **** retarded to try and target them. Should not be allowed.

Well identical to target a magus on a deamon.
Back in live when you summoned your Turret it appeared some feet in front of you.
I can only guess that there is no code to let it be in RoR too.

I disagree. Having said that, I have never targeted a Magus in anger, so you could be correct. I would assume that targeting a magus standing "in" his daemon would be like having to click the upper portion of a postern door to get by an enemy player. Without that upper portion, or using your camera angle to assist, you would only be able to click on the player. The magus, on his disk, is taller than his daemon, and therefore can be clicked on his upper portion for targeting. Add-ons also assist with this if you get the target marked prior to deployment of the daemon or turret, but that's not always possible and not every player uses add-ons.

The unfair advantage the dwarves have is that they are approximately the same height as their deployed device, not allowing any upper region to click on for targeting. "Tab Target" you might say. Well the issue with that is tab-targeting picks up the nearest enemy and cycles through them. Many times, as a tank, I am targeting enemy players up to 100 yards away (especially RDPS) to taunt them for damage reduction or in extreme cases of multiple engineers in a cluster, using my M3 to reduce their damage as a group. After all, that's what I do as a Tank, Guard people to soak damage, Find ways to mitigate damage for the 6-man, and Die.

By allowing the engineers to carry with them this deployable screen, you effectively negate some or all of my ranged mitigation abilities while at the same time increasing the survivability of the RDPs by a good margin.

I know this will not change in this forum post, but it's like any nuance in a game that can be exploited without being called an exploit - it will be used and abused until the powers that be take a stand. I certainly do not have the power to change it and thus, I have to live with it. Let me ask you this; If it is not a distinct advantage for the engineer class to be able to "hide in plain sight" inside their class mechanic "pet" why do so many of them (read as All of them) take this stance/position in-game?

A simple fix would be to force the collision rules of RvR onto pets for friendly players only. In this way, friendly players would have to go around the pet, but enemies could go through it - saving the agony of multiple stacks of flame turrets or daemons inside the outer wall door tunnel at keeps that would exist if collision for enemies existed.

Target the turret, destroy it quickly, negating any defensive bonuses provided or force the enginerr away from his turret via a punt or a pull, continue to cc like you would any rdps class with your group and move on.

Sure they can deploy the turret again, but you have created a circle of the engi forced to redeploy for a high AP cost and interrupt the cast rotation or to re-position and again interrupt their rotation and thus reduce the threat level by reducing the capability to output dps.

[Luuca]

Target the turret, destroy it quickly, negating any defensive bonuses provided or force the enginerr away from his turret via a punt or a pull, continue to cc like you would any rdps class with your group and move on.

Sure they can deploy the turret again, but you have created a circle of the engi forced to redeploy for a high AP cost and interrupt the cast rotation or to re-position and again interrupt their rotation and thus reduce the threat level by reducing the capability to output dps.

You fail to understand that, as a defensive SnB Chosen i have perhaps the lowest damage output of any class in T4. Sure I can Target the turret, but destroying it would take me too long. I can't punt it away, and i can't target the Engineer to punt him away usually. Yes, tabbing again sometimes does the trick, but I do not have this issue with Bright Wizards, Shadow Warriors, or ANY other enemy I face. Do you, as an order player face this challenge consistently on any Destruction classes?

My focus and purpose in this game is to assist my team. Sure i do a little DpS, but mainly, I Guard, float guard, i snare, tooth, Knockdown, Punt, Taunt, Challenge, stagger and Sever Blessings.

The main issue with the Engineer inside his turret isn't when my melee train is with me on top of him, the issue is when he is up on a wall of a keep, a wall in Norden Watch, or 80-100 feet away sniping my healers or casters. It's then that I want to be able to stay with the melee train, switch target for a second, Taunt him to reduce his damage for a bit, and get back on the focus target.

With the Engineer being the ONLY class that can hide in plain sight like this at range, I have no way to get my target on him. Tabbing gets me a close enemy, clicking gets me the turret (not the one I want to taunt or use M3 on).

So I'm stuck. Even up close, if I simply want to punt the Engineer away from the flag, tabbing to him nets me the turret. Unless the Mdps is with me and that Engineer is THE target, it's difficult to target him efficiently.

I challenge you to name another class in the game who has this unique ability you are defending. A portable anti-target kit.

You simply cannot. You can say, Well.. the Magus... but we all know clicking him is easier than an Engineer inside his pet.

So, we play the game they give us. We write factual posts and watch our P's and Q's so as we don't see the moon again, and they decide what's fair play. I just Guard players and die. It's what I do.

[Dabbart]

You can bind a key to cycle enemies, and then another for target nearest. As someone who plays both sides, targeting magus/engi can be annoying, but it's not unmanageable. But your point that a quick target can be a pain is true. Get in the habit of putting permanent Enemy markers on Engi's you find annoying, you can click the marker to target. Rclick the color marker on your Enemy and you can edit it to be permanent and targetable or not, as well as a few other handy things.

And SHs can do pretty much the same thing. SH/Shams can also hide in grass/bushes. In Highpass SC, they can be a pain in the ass to even see sometimes. They can also break line of sight on smaller objects...

Never played either class. But the guy I played with on Magus/engi the most(that I respect the opinion of the most) always said that they really just need a heal debuff of some sort. Gimmicky things are nice, but a decent heal debuff would let them actually "work". Blame Riftbeardz if you disagree.

Edit: words and sentence structure...

[Forwe]

Target the turret, destroy it quickly, negating any defensive bonuses provided or force the enginerr away from his turret via a punt or a pull, continue to cc like you would any rdps class with your group and move on.

Sure they can deploy the turret again, but you have created a circle of the engi forced to redeploy for a high AP cost and interrupt the cast rotation or to re-position and again interrupt their rotation and thus reduce the threat level by reducing the capability to output dps.

You fail to understand that, as a defensive SnB Chosen i have perhaps the lowest damage output of any class in T4. Sure I can Target the turret, but destroying it would take me too long. I can't punt it away, and i can't target the Engineer to punt him away usually. Yes, tabbing again sometimes does the trick, but I do not have this issue with Bright Wizards, Shadow Warriors, or ANY other enemy I face. Do you, as an order player face this challenge consistently on any Destruction classes?

My focus and purpose in this game is to assist my team. Sure i do a little DpS, but mainly, I Guard, float guard, i snare, tooth, Knockdown, Punt, Taunt, Challenge, stagger and Sever Blessings.

The main issue with the Engineer inside his turret isn't when my melee train is with me on top of him, the issue is when he is up on a wall of a keep, a wall in Norden Watch, or 80-100 feet away sniping my healers or casters. It's then that I want to be able to stay with the melee train, switch target for a second, Taunt him to reduce his damage for a bit, and get back on the focus target.

With the Engineer being the ONLY class that can hide in plain sight like this at range, I have no way to get my target on him. Tabbing gets me a close enemy, clicking gets me the turret (not the one I want to taunt or use M3 on).

So I'm stuck. Even up close, if I simply want to punt the Engineer away from the flag, tabbing to him nets me the turret. Unless the Mdps is with me and that Engineer is THE target, it's difficult to target him efficiently.

I challenge you to name another class in the game who has this unique ability you are defending. A portable anti-target kit.

You simply cannot. You can say, Well.. the Magus... but we all know clicking him is easier than an Engineer inside his pet.

So, we play the game they give us. We write factual posts and watch our P's and Q's so as we don't see the moon again, and they decide what's fair play. I just Guard players and die. It's what I do.

Do you know why engies "hide in their turrets"? Because, compared to Live, where turrets were created a few feet in front of you, on RoR, turrets get spawned literally on top of you. In combat, you don't really have the time to drop a turret, and then move a few feet to be "fair", especialy as an engi, where every second of being unharrased in precious and should be spent on trying to kill people, cause, when you're attacked, most you can do is throw dots.

Besides, albeit it might be a bit more tricky to do for Squid Herders than engies, they also can hide inside their Squigs, and good luck trying to click a two-feet target when they're standing inside a squig that's higher that then.

[Glorian]

Try to click on a fleeing shaman with counter strike ruined wrists.

And I have seen goblins hiding in a bush in the BO Gromril crossing. And Order warbands passing feet near them without noticing. An 2 Meter SW can't do that.

But that is the game. Dwarfs are dwarfs, Goblins are Goblins.

And yes, Engis stand in their turrets because I have no time move out of it in the fight.

[Fey]

Engi hiding in his turret is an excellent defensive tactic, lolz for any comparison to magus. If you don't recognize the diminutive stature of dwarves as an inherent advantage you're playing, Hello Kitty island adventure.
On my squigherder I've literally never gotten my squig to stand directly on me other than maybe the initial summon. Maybe loyal pet fixes that, heel command does not. You can deny reality all you want I guess. Flame on flamer.

[Forwe]

If the devs make turrets spawn a bit in front of you, then you'll see less engies standing in them to "gain defensive advantage". Right now, some are using it because it's good, some because they don't care to move because the position is good, and some don't because there is simply no time. Don't expect engies to make an effort to be fair when SHs and WLs are still deliberately using their pets to punt/pull people off the walls. Besides, as "defensive" as it might be, if your turret gets destroyed, then you're also crippled. You've just lost +20% damage, maybe +15% to crit, either +range or +%dodge/disrupt and 60AP to rebuild it. Especially when it comes to hiding in Gun Turrets, as they're paper-thin

edit: about hiding in squigs; I dunno how exactly that's done, my max lvl SH was 9 on Live or so. Still, I see some SH's doing that, whether it's just by accident or on purpose I do not know; still, you can't deny it's usefulness. Sure, it annoys me when that happens, but I either just try to click him, I focus his squig to make him lose +5% to crit or tons of armor, or just find another priority target(or use the fact that I have a target with low chance to dodge, and drop all my AoE skills on that squig, to make sure it spreads on everyone near it, also quite effective)