[On Hold] Making BG more useful

[Deadpoet]

PROPOSALS TO MAKE BLACKGUARD MORE USEFUL

This is the reworked version of my earlier post. Thanks to Gerv for giving me some useful indications.

GENERAL PROBLEM: There seems to be a consensus that Blackguard (BG) is less well suited to a group context than the other two tanks, and much has been written about this both ingame and in the forums. This issue is closely linked to the kind of buffs and debuffs the class offers to the group and also to the class’ general inability to apply its benefits as easily and as automatically/instantly as other tanks. I will address the problem and provide solutions under 3 headings:

1. PROBLEM WITH BUFFS: BG’s buffs are both insufficient (they only affect the BG’s Dark Protegé (DP), not the group) and redundant, (str of Brutal Smash (BS), toughness of Feeding on Weakness (FoW), both made redundant by chosen’s most used auras or Black Orc stat steal bellows) except for the huge willpower buff of BS).

SOLUTION: Making the buffs groupwide would go against one of the class’ defining mechanics, so that is a no go. But at least the redundant buffs to DP can be replaced by new, useful ones.

PROPOSALS: Replacing BS’s strenght buff with a weapon skill buff (an offensive stat for another one) and FoW toughness buff with an initiative one (a defensive stat for another one) plus a dodge buff scaling off hate to a maximum of +25%, instead of the puny heal component of FoW.

Notes: The heal from FoW clearly has to go,(or else be boosted significantly). As someone pointed out once, this half-assed part of the ability looks like an afterthought by the original game designers. The dodge component I propose to replace it with is inspired by an oathfriend buff that gives +25% parry, (also, I realized later, the initiative part) but is meant to provide a unique and very much needed bonus to an avoidance stat almost completely neglected in itemization. It has also the side benefit that it would allow a 2handed BG to provide his DP with at least some of the avoidance that a snb tank can give to all allies behind him with Hold the Line.


2. PROBLEM WITH DEBUFFS: Some of the BG’s debuffs overlap with and are overshadowed by similar or more efficient versions in the marauder’s arsenal (armor, wounds, toughness, maybe AP drain). (Actually, the BG’s wounds debuff is arguably more useful to the party as it can be applied to multiple targets at the same time with Crimson Death or Monstruous Rending.)

SOLUTION: I can’t see a solution for this, as overboosting BG’s debuffs would render marauder redundant, and replacing the debuffed stats or ratings would result in the BG losing very necessary tools for himself (armor debuff especially). But I don’t think this will be a big problem if we can boost other debuffs that the BG has. And this leads me to the third and last part.

3. APPLYING THE BENEFITS: To apply all the buffs and debuffs the BG has to spend a lot of gcds and still the benefits only affect targets individually, one by one. We have seen that in the case of buffs this can’t be changed easily, as the BG has a Dark Protector mechanic that implies that most of the buffs are individual.

In the case of the debuffs, there are no DP mechanic constraints. Still we see that most of the debuffs are ST. However, some of the most interesting debuffs can be applied to more than one enemy at once. See Crimson Death and Furious Howl.

SOLUTION: The true nature of the BG is debuffing, and this is where he can be most helpful. The BG can’t buff the entire group, but he can debuff most or all of the enemy group. In my book, an AoE debuff that makes (for example) the enemy group 10% more likely to be crit is as effective as a 10% chance to crit buff for the group.
We just have to take the lead from the existing AoE debuff abilities that the BG possesses (Crimson Death, Furious Howl) and simply follow the example. I think this is the right direction, the original plan halfway developed. In short:

PROPOSALS: Choking Fury and Crush the Weak should be made into AoE abilities, with lengthened cd on Crush the Weak resulting in a 50% uptime like Crimson Death to prevent it from being OP. This would be enough to make the BG more appealing as a group member, and would fit perfectly with the BG’s defining hallmark of the debuffing tank.

[Gerv]

Hi Deadpoet

You need to streamline the post, for a discussion to occur, there needs to be definitive solutions otherwise you allow people to many choices in their responses and the topic quickly derails, i.e. rather than ""i propose, for example . . . " make a decision, "i proposal changing strength to weapon-skill".

Secondly, if you don't believe your solutions are feasible, don't post them, responders will focus on a small section, such as the section on conflicting Mara ST changes, and ignore the rest, while against the rules of the balance forum, it will happen. The Marauder has ST for a reason and your first proposal to alter the buff stats covers this.

Lastly, if people don't want to read the whole post and objectively respond, they shouldn't or will be heavily moderated, I suggest you remove the summary section.

I will leave it open for a week, edit your changes, and then I will accept or decline it.

Cheers, Gerv

[th3gatekeeper]

Spoiler:

+ replace Brutal Smash with weapon skill buff. I like this. Makes it less redundant.

- FOW Toughness changes. I dislike this one. I think this is still useful for solo play or if you dont have a Chosen in your group. I get what you are trying to do, but all tanks should have a toughness buff IMO. Dodge scaling is over the top. BG can already have Anger Drives me + Shielding Anger. Giving a Dodge debuff would make deftard tank more deftard... If the heal is so puny, why not merely bump this up to 50%/75%/100%. You have to remember this also heals your DP. As a tank, giving toughness buff to self + DP + heal self + heal DP is not a bad ability...

+/- Choking Fury/Crush the Weak. I DO like Choking Fury being AOE. This would lend itself well to the BG tree and make him able to drain AP really well. I dislike Crush the Weak being AoE that would be too strong IMO... Also CD is a 100% uptime. 10 sec buff 10 sec CD. Just FYI.

I think, that in order to really see how to better balance BG, Id like to see what Chosen changes are going to happen first. The only clear cut example I like you proposed was to replace strength buff on brutal smash with a weaponskill buff. That would be cool. Choking Fury also being AoE would make it unique too.

If you asked me... I actually dislike Hastened Doom... The fact its a wounds debuff on crit.. ya its "AoE" but you cant apply that at beginning of fights reliably like Chosen/Mara can... Not JUSt because its crit, but all your AoE (minus get down) require Hate, so you need to build hate in combat, to then AoE spend hate, to then hope for a crit, to debuff wounds...

Pretty simple th3gatekeeper, you don't post +1's on people's proposals, you wait until the proposal has moved to discussion. You were here when Az had these open, again further replies to this post or other proposals, as the same with anyone else will result in you banned from this section of the forums. You know the rules.

- Gerv.

[Penril]

Declining, OP doesn't have a BG.