How can we salvage Da Big 'Un?

[Dreadspectre]

So, part of my whole reason to play 2H BO was going 2H Boss. I love Da Big Un, I love the concept of being a non SnB lead the way orc and debuffing and AoE'ing everyone.

Sadly, it seems the whole(and really only reason) to ever try 2H with Boss tree being DBU isn't really worth giving up SnB for.

So how do we make it better?

Spitball ideas:

Change it to Corp damage to have synergy with WAAAGH!

Change YGN tactic to say "Bellows trigger a heal and DBU heals all teammates for 50% of the damage dealt(just one hit, not 50% of ALL the damge done)

orrr

YGN "Bellows trigger a heal and DBU applies a 25% heal debuff(or maybe something like 20% chance to apply a 50% heal debuff)." Possibly too strong but like I said, spitballing.

Add some sort of stacking debuff to it baseline that increases the damage from future DBU. Say "Applies a debuff to targets hit that increases the damage of DBU by 10%, stackable 3 times".


NOTE: I'm not saying ALL these changes, just one (or none if they're all awful haha). Just want to make DBU a viable reason to go 2H Boss.

[TenTonHammer]

Make it an AoE resists debuff? Like WoH?

One of the real proablems with 2H BO is that it has no purpose and is just loldps atm

Changing should be made to give Da Big Un a real purpose to the 2H playstyle much like Rending blade and Crimson death


Also with a resists buff a debuff, alternative chosen wont be as mandatory

[Dreadspectre]

Make it an AoE resists debuff? Like WoH?

One of the real proablems with 2H BO is that it has no purpose and is just loldps atm

Changing should be made to give Da Big Un a real purpose to the 2H playstyle much like Rending blade and Crimson death


Also with a resists buff a debuff, alternative chosen wont be as mandatory

Wouldn't that make WAAAGH! kind of redundant then? I mean...if they stacked I guess it would be ok but investing that deep into the tree just for an extra single resist debuff when DBU would already do more baseline?

[TenTonHammer]

Wouldn't that make WAAAGH! kind of redundant then? I mean...if they stacked I guess it would be ok but investing that deep into the tree just for an extra single resist debuff when DBU would already do more baseline?

Not really cuase the way i see it ; WAAAAGH! would still be a hard hitting AoE ability with a high chance to crit , making it still very good for warband play, additonally Da Big Un would be a resists debuffer ability that would benifit every one and not just BO and Sorc really

[Penril]

DBU serves a purpose: it lets you spam AoE attacks = more Da Biggest! procs. Else, you would only have Big Swing and would need to heavily rely on Changin da Plan. Also it is core. And it is good for farming in PvE.

If you are asking for it to be a super useful AoE skill in PvP... why should it? Not all classes are good at AoE (WE, WL, WH for example). Also, there are a bazillion tactics/skills that are only good at PvE but not PvP.

[Dreadspectre]

DBU serves a purpose: it lets you spam AoE attacks = more Da Biggest! procs. Else, you would only have Big Swing and would need to heavily rely on Changin da Plan. Also it is core. And it is good for farming in PvE.

If you are asking for it to be a super useful AoE skill in PvP... why should it? Not all classes are good at AoE (WE, WL, WH for example). Also, there are a bazillion tactics/skills that are only good at PvE but not PvP.

It is good for proccing bellows, however the Bellow that is tied to the Boss tree also has zero synergy with DBU.

At the very least, I would like to see DBU changed to Corp damage for synergy with WAAAGH!. I could live with that I think.

[Penril]

If you are running 2H, you are most probably Brawler spec. Which means your Da Biggest! is pretty good, and you can spam DBU (core) to proc it. Who the hell goes 2H and WAAAGH! spec anyway? No THC? Or GaBC + GS? Any decent 2H spec will lack WAAAGH, meaning that if you want to spam AoE for more Biggest! procs, DBU is just fine as it is.

Even with zero points in Da Boss! you can still do this since you should not care about DBU damage. You only want it for the procs. You can potentially enter the fight, Big Swing>DBU and have a ton of DB procs, then you use your usual rotations. Repeat when needed.

In case you still don't understand me: who told you that DBU should be as good as, say, Winds of Insanity or Shatter Limbs? It is what it is, it has its uses in PvE and can still be slighty useful in PvP.

[Dreadspectre]

If you are running 2H, you are most probably Brawler spec. Which means your Da Biggest! is pretty good, and you can spam DBU (core) to proc it. Who the hell goes 2H and WAAAGH! spec anyway? No THC? Or GaBC + GS? Any decent 2H spec will lack WAAAGH, meaning that if you want to spam AoE for more Biggest! procs, DBU is just fine as it is.

Even with zero points in Da Boss! you can still do this since you should not care about DBU damage. You only want it for the procs. You can potentially enter the fight, Big Swing>DBU and have a ton of DB procs, then you use your usual rotations. Repeat when needed.

In case you still don't understand me: who told you that DBU should be as good as, say, Winds of Insanity or Shatter Limbs? It is what it is, it has its uses in PvE and can still be slighty useful in PvP.

Which is the point of this thread...how do you make a skill tied to a Mastery tree more suited for the Mastery it belongs to?

Do you not see the fundamental flaw of a skill tied to a tree not being used or only being used by a build that doesn't even spec into the mastery tree that skill belongs to?

And yes, 2H Boss is a fairly stupid thing to do, because the only skill that requires a GW has no synergy with the tree itself. It doesn't debuff, it doesn't buff.

Basically, it doesn't fit. In all honesty, it would make more sense for Skullthumper to be in Boss tree and DBU in Brawler. I feel that is another discussion entirely though.

[tazdingo]

instead of changing da big un, i would change YGN to "da big un now grants all group members with in x feet a 100pt protective shield per enemy hit, up to a maximum of 500pts"

or maybe some synergy with rock ard, bring the rest of the boss tree up with it

[Penril]

Can't you run a Brawler/Boss spec and use DBU for more DB procs?

Can't you run a Toughest/Boss spec and use DBU for more DT procs?

Maybe that's the reason why that skill is in "Da Boss" tree? Because it lets you get fast, almost guaranteed DB (or DT) procs and then swap back to DG? Something that would be harder in SnB only spamming BS.

Of course, you would have to keep an eye on what stats you already stole, and then dance between DB/DG. I guess it is just easier to say "buff DBU!".

Something that would be nice though is having the Bellows off the GCD.


And btw, I never said a 2H Boss spec was bad. I said a 2H WAAAGH spec. They are not the same thing.