Revolution

[Yaliskah]

well well well...

Dajciekrwi. You wanna see everything done before seeing experiments. Sadly, i don't share your opinion on it. As said earlier, i can't understand why we moved so quickly players in T4 when T1-2-3 mecanic wasn't efficient, resulting the actual RvR issues we all know. Deploying more if we could will just be a pointless flight forward, creating more frustration, the illusion of content and more and more loss in community.

About team comunication, i don't understand repproaches. We are totally unable to answer both of you, and react to all you suggestions. Not because we don't care of it, but mostly because thats not our IRL job... ..and we haven't time to. Don't misunderstand me. We are trying our best to consider your feedbacks (and keep in mind we are players too, with our sincere opinion of the actual situation of the project). Now, if you read carefully all this thread, you can find the blue, the red, the green, all of you having his own opinion about what is good and whats not in the OP propositions. According this, how are we supposed to make everyone agree with a choice or another? Sadly we can't. We just hope to do the best for this project, and that players will understand our purpose isn't to make a different game, even if we are doing it in a different way ( for technical or belief reasons).

About changes vs original version. This little "fight" is pointless.
Exemple : On orginal server, you were able to play a skaven but in the same original server you weren't able to, depending when you played. Both are "original" and i'm pretty sure you could discuss ages about to know if we should keep it or not, or doing something different.
Add to this our own tech limits in dev and you will probably understand. Btw, many little changes we deployed who didn't exist on original are welcome ( free mount, loot on lock and not on keep anymore (i don't talk about the system...), etcetcetc...). Once again, our purpose isn't to make a different game, even if we are doing it in a different way.

[Grobbok]

Lets make clear one thing -90 % of players comes to RoR cos they PLAY & LOVE SOME VERSION OF WARHAMMER ONLINE. And trust me, your "morale bad morale good" discussion is for these 90% peoples utterly INDIFFERENT. They just ask themselves "ROR bring me good memories about playing WAR Online or not?" - If not - "farewell and good luck".
And imao - no matter what revolution y make or not make - here left just fanatics and this project will be just vegetating. It is just to late.
Sorry its a harsh truth for me, thought you all meet me in every evening on battlefield.

I'm sorry but this is such a stupid comment. I can't understand why YOU are still playing the game

it's because of me! oioioioi all gits
but really, if you see population like destro 54, order 27, anonymus 3, it not looks great

[Wdova]

It's funny to see that those moaning about any sort of changes, or deviation from original live WAR, are those players who were entirely reliant upon the OP cheese live had. Now that said cheese doesn't exist, they hate the idea of further 'deviation' (read: balance and making the game better).

Idjakrwi says 90% of the people playing don't want changes, I would counter that and say 90% of the people playing don't actually know how to play (judging from rvr/sc). Do we listen to the protests of said people when discussing (potentially) beneficial changes that would enhance the pvp experience?

It's like the 'purists' who say vanilla wow was the best expansion ever made for wow when, clearly, it wasn't (from a balance/mechanic pov).

Peter I gues we all like changes we really do, but OP´s suggestions gone too far. Its too harsh and drastic and removing some major pillars WHO stands on is not sollution. Removing AOE and dmg morals, remove or nerf CC? furthermore nerf for crit chance and crit dmg? I think most of this made WAR special to other MMOs.

Sure some skills, masteries and whole classes must be balanced in line with others, but removing game mechanics as OP suggest will lead more to "angry blood" than bring any solution.

Example:
Do we have issue with coordinate AOE morale bombing? Ok, lets change them in to single target or limit them to X targets. Why we should remove them?

[peterthepan3]

I agree vdova and I don't agree with a whole load of hao's suggestions (like the ones you mentioned!), but my point was pertaining to some people's reluctance to even embrace the idea of change - lest it deviate from the oh-so-precious live variant of WAR!

On a sidenote: never leave us, Grobbok!

[KikkL]

yeh the time to kill in wb fights can get ridiculously low, I can't even cast a 1.5 sec Shattered Shadows before the target has melted to some other aoe pressure.

Thats not even the point, well kinda. I mean it takes 1 person to eliminate someone in 3/5 seconds max.
If you have 2 people on 1 target and they are high dps that target is dead in a second! And im not even talking about morale dumps. The game is so DPS biased its not even fun.
The amount of skill it takes to kill someone if you are DPS is a joke.

You can detaunt, you can heal, you can use every trick you have to 'defend' yourself, but if you are fighting a DPS and you are squishy YOU ARE DEAD. Even some tanks can plow through squishys. Ya group game, SURE

I would really like the idea of a woundbuff for everyone, so fights aren't over in 2,5 seconds.

Be it 100 wounds which are around 16%
Or something like plus 120 wounds which is something like 20%.

Of course tanks makes the most out of their wounds and low armor burst careers could run out of AP before they kill their target.

But as already some has pointed out: we want fights. And that doesn't mean flying 5 minutes through Thunder Mountain and get rekt by an enemy warband because they have fought against a sixman and have morals ready in some seconds.

Moving, targetting, chasing. Fights I say.

Yes it would need to be a lot more then a couple hundred. Even a couple thousand wouldnt be enough. Fights dont last, there are no fights, sometimes its just you DIE, No matter what you do!
Ive honestly moved onto another game(or trying to) im tired of rerolling and rerolling and rerolling because of the insta death in T4. You do have more survivability, you do have more play ability in T1 than you do T4 and that is messed up. in T1 people are not bursting you down in millaseconds.

Yes DPS classes should be running out of AP to kill you. Most DPS dont run out of AP before your dead! Its no effort!
It should take 3/4 DPS on the squishiest player in the game to kill them, not 1 person 3 seconds. That would make it a group game.

[Dabbart]

Then don't spec squishy if you don't have a team.... I've ran all sorts of classes solo. The squishy ones always have the best survival abilities.

And the OPs changes are supposed to go too far. Remove something, and you will finally realize how much you rely upon it. Or not. There should never be a "finished" state. You can always add or tweak something else.

Don't let perfection stand in the way of progress.

[dansari]

I'm really confused by this argument. If a DPS is killing you within 1-2 seconds, you or your team isn't reacting correctly (even sorcs and BWs will dot you up before performing a rotation on you so you have time to get your healers to cleanse or shield). If you are referring to 1v1 interactions, there's no discussion to be had.

[KikkL]

I'm really confused by this argument. If a DPS is killing you within 1-2 seconds, you or your team isn't reacting correctly (even sorcs and BWs will dot you up before performing a rotation on you so you have time to get your healers to cleanse or shield). If you are referring to 1v1 interactions, there's no discussion to be had.

LOL! you prove the point of how little time reaction there is. Not everyone is a game master at this, so if a healer doesnt cast their 2sec heal on you before removing the debuffs, that entitles you to death? From 1 person, thats almost a 1Vs1 situation right there.. Because the healer has no time to react properly.. Neither do you

Theres no argument debating with some of you. I dunno you must be conditioned to dieing in 5seconds as part of a gaming experience? Its like because this person didnt do this or that within a 2second period, well ya your gonna die? Really and you think thats ok?

[dansari]

IF you begin to get dotted by a sorc AND you don't have group resistance buffs AND you aren't getting watched by your healers and/or tanks AND you're built to be squishy as a conscious choice THEN you have a rotation unloaded on you, you can expect to die or nearly die in those situations. I don't find that broken at all. Normally if a sorc blows me up it's because they're really good (Korze, Xiuxiu, etc) and/or I didn't play the matchup correctly.

Edit: just realized this was super off topic. My bad

[Juppstein]

I
Idjakrwi says 90% of the people playing don't want changes, I would counter that and say 90% of the people playing don't actually know how to play (judging from rvr/sc). Do we listen to the protests of said people when discussing (potentially) beneficial changes that would enhance the pvp experience?.

Sorry Peter, i dont say ppl leave cos because they dont want to changes. Precisely, I have on my mind that many people from Warhammer online dont come back for RoR- no matter how y change all this mechanics.
That all, im not that such arrogant to speak what shoul be done, to have in RoRat least so many players like in last month of Warhammer Online.

Not trying to attack your opinion but what you wrote made me think.

Let me give you some perspective from someone that just started on this server about two or three weeks ago and played WAR last in 2012 or so. We are a group of 4 and have no twinks or trade/prof alts, just the regular toon or two we play. So we are not able to hand down the cool gear, pop big potions all the time or have super cool talis in each slot. We are the average neighbourhood players.

We've reached T3 only about a few days ago and two days ago we had our first foray into the RvR lakes of T3. The fights we saw were pretty horrid in terms of entertainment value for a regular player that itches to have some nice fighting going on. What it was, was basically one side nuking the other side within less than 15 seconds, after which you had a build-up of about 2-5 minutes where both sides stared at each other with a bit of running forth and back, and then the spectacle repeated itself ad nauseam. <---NOT FUN

I might have forgotten if that was the case in WAR back then in T3 as well, but I do remember that it was one of the reasons we stopped playing after enduring this for quite some time in T4. So yes, as part of the "casual player base" I would really welcome changes to would add some kind of entertainment back in to this product in to the mid and higher tiers.

Because let's face it; WAR/RoR was and is a game that lived by the number of people that played it. You cannot just listen to the min-maxers and elite pro gamers if the goal is to have a sustainable player base. If there are not enough people in a PvP game, the PvP just dies, and with it the game. In fact one should be very careful while listening to the hardcore gamers if you want to survive as a PvP game, because what they want will usually scare away the majority of the "normal" players.